EAllusion wrote:Why get hung up on the semantics of the word plagarize? The salient point is that large sections of the Book of Mormon text are easily shown to be derivative of the KJV translation.
Derivative is a good word. charity et al. are arguing that the KJV and the Book of Mormon derive from the same source: God. But as multiple posts have shown (who knew that Brant Gardner agreed with us?) the derivation is one way.
Who Knows wrote:Well, we're specifically talking about plagiarism, which charity can't seem to accept.
The Book of Mormon uses the KJV Bible, but does not give credit.
Yes it does. So what? I seem to recall that while Paul often gives credit to phrases and ideas from the Old Testament that sometimes he does not. In fact, I think even Shakespeare gets ideas from the Bible that he didn't exactly give credit to. I ask again: so what?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Who Knows wrote:Well, we're specifically talking about plagiarism, which charity can't seem to accept.
The Book of Mormon uses the KJV Bible, but does not give credit.
Yes it does. So what? I seem to recall that while Paul often gives credit to phrases and ideas from the Old Testament that sometimes he does not. In fact, I think even Shakespeare gets ideas from the Bible that he didn't exactly give credit to. I ask again: so what?
Well, that's a different question. The OP is:
"Did Joseph Smith plagiarize the KJV in the Book of Mormon?"
The answer is yes.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
the road to hana wrote: Hate to tell you, but it's not even an LDS view that there have been several apostasies and restorations. Just one.
Not at all correct. There have been seven: Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Meridian of time (Jesus and the apostles) , Fulness of Times (that's us).
Who Knows wrote:Well, we're specifically talking about plagiarism, which charity can't seem to accept.
The Book of Mormon uses the KJV Bible, but does not give credit.
Yeah, I do seem to get hung up on what words mean. So when someone uses the word "plagiarism" I think they ought to use it correctly. What a weakness.
Of course, it gets down to a more basic question. Even if Joseph Smith made it up himself, composed the Book of Mormon as a piece of 19th century fiction, there is still a technical question. He never claimed he wrote it.
If he merely tranlsated what God wrote, then you don't have one scintilla of an accusation.
charity wrote: Yeah, I do seem to get hung up on what words mean. So when someone uses the word "plagiarism" I think they ought to use it correctly. What a weakness.
Of course, it gets down to a more basic question. Even if Joseph Smith made it up himself, composed the Book of Mormon as a piece of 19th century fiction, there is still a technical question. He never claimed he wrote it.
If he merely tranlsated what God wrote, then you don't have one scintilla of an accusation.
In other words, if the Book of Mormon is true, it can't be plagiarized. QED.
the road to hana wrote: Hate to tell you, but it's not even an LDS view that there have been several apostasies and restorations. Just one.
Not at all correct. There have been seven: Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Meridian of time (Jesus and the apostles) , Fulness of Times (that's us).
Those are dispensations, not apostasies and restorations.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
charity wrote:If he merely tranlsated what God wrote, then you don't have one scintilla of an accusation.
Wow. Now don't I look silly. Time for me to take my ball and go home.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
charity wrote:If he merely tranlsated what God wrote, then you don't have one scintilla of an accusation.
Sure they do unless God is responsible for the KJV translation. God may be responsible for the original Greek / Hebrew / Aramaic as well as the general ideas, but that still leaves unexplained all the other things that obviously point to the KVJ translation being used. Now, does that matter as far as the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon goes? I don't think it does.
Last edited by Analytics on Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Who Knows wrote:Well, we're specifically talking about plagiarism, which charity can't seem to accept.
The Book of Mormon uses the KJV Bible, but does not give credit.
Yeah, I do seem to get hung up on what words mean. So when someone uses the word "plagiarism" I think they ought to use it correctly. What a weakness.
Of course, it gets down to a more basic question. Even if Joseph Smith made it up himself, composed the Book of Mormon as a piece of 19th century fiction, there is still a technical question. He never claimed he wrote it.
If he merely tranlsated what God wrote, then you don't have one scintilla of an accusation.
I'm pretty sure the face sheet says author and proprietor for the first printing.
