whats wrong with a little wine?

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Yeah that's what I was told.

Night guys, gosh I think I was German in a past life coz I keep writing nicht. Every time.

[_Jason Bourne]

I still cringe when I see a catholic priest smoking a cigarette.

Do you also cringe when you go to an LDS function and see Mormons glutting themselves on sugary, fatty food?

Yes, some people will become alcoholics when they drink alcohol. And some people will become obese due to overeating sugary carbohydrates.

How many health problems are caused by obesity? And which problem is more epidemic in the US culture? Funny how "god" totally missed that one.

I don't think it was God who missed it. The WoW tells us to eat a healthy diet. But Mormons missed it. I once wrote an article for our ward newsletter at the request of the editor. Because I had lost a lot of weight by increasing a particular physical activity and cutting food consumption. In it I noted that LDS people pat their selves on the back for not drinking a glass of wine but many are overweight and obese and thing nothing of shoveling down cookie after cookie. I noted in many cased they would be better off avoiding the goodies and drinking a glass of wine each day.


Anyway if LDS people would watch what they eat using meat sparingly and eating grains, fruits and veggies, exercise a bit and avoid drugs, liquor and tobacco they would even be more healthy.

[_Jason Bourne]

So you take your judgemental Mormon baggage over to judge Catholic priests. You forget that God is the judge if you believe in God. It is just plain amazing to me that this WofW stuff can be taken to such self-righteous limits.

In the big picture that cigarette or glass of wine doesn't save you nor condemn you. The WofW was a suggestion that has taken legalism to the max. The doctrine itself is confusing and obscure and yet it is interpreted with such judgemental exactness. The Mormons as a majority don't even know what's in the doctrine. I bet it doesn't even enter your mind when you eat that Big Mac but you will judge the guy next to you having a cup of joe.

The history of the WoW and its application is interesting. It was a hot and cold topic for many year. Joseph Smith certianly drank some wine and even wanted a bar int he Nauvoo House. If I recall BY had a brewery. It certainly was not binding nor required for a TR until the HJG era. After that it really became a hard measure and standard of worthiness.

[_JAK]

Should God, in his infinite wisdom, prohibit Big Macs too?

I think he was hoping we'd be smart enough to make that choice on our own.

A typical anthropomorphic characterization of a God invention.

Why would God be hoping?

Christian doctrine characterizes God as omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Given that characterization, the invented God hardly needs to be “hoping” anything.

As the creator of “all that was made,” this God is all responsible. According to this doctrine, all that is was created by God.

“Hope” is a human characteristic of thought. Humans hope. Hence, you invent God in the image of man (mankind).

JAK

[_beastie]

Anyway if LDS people would watch what they eat using meat sparingly and eating grains, fruits and veggies, exercise a bit and avoid drugs, liquor and tobacco they would even be more healthy.

I think God missed it because it's not over-eating MEAT that has resulted in epidemic obesity in the US - it's over-eating of refined carbohydrates and sugar. (to say nothing of the fact that we pour artificial ingredients into our bodies every day, which may not make us fat, but make us unhealthy)

Also, the WoW was, as you point out, not a hard commandment, and when God - or whoever - decided to make it a hard commandment, he ignored the part about eating. No one is denied a temple recommend for poisoning their body with overdosing on carbohydrates or continually pouring chemicals in their bodies (like sodas).

Given the trajectory of this nation's health problems, I'd say that was a big miss.

[_JAK]

Anyway if LDS people would watch what they eat using meat sparingly and eating grains, fruits and veggies, exercise a bit and avoid drugs, liquor and tobacco they would even be more healthy.

I think God missed it because it's not over-eating MEAT that has resulted in epidemic obesity in the US - it's over-eating of refined carbohydrates and sugar. (to say nothing of the fact that we pour artificial ingredients into our bodies every day, which may not make us fat, but make us unhealthy)

Also, the WoW was, as you point out, not a hard commandment, and when God - or whoever - decided to make it a hard commandment, he ignored the part about eating. No one is denied a temple recommend for poisoning their body with overdosing on carbohydrates or continually pouring chemicals in their bodies (like sodas).

Given the trajectory of this nation's health problems, I'd say that was a big miss.

When Mormons came to my door, I offered then hot chocolate.

They accepted and drank it. It contains caffeine, that which is prohibited in the form of coffee or tea. Mormon doctrine does not do chemistry.

JAK

[_The Nehor]

Should God, in his infinite wisdom, prohibit Big Macs too?

I think he was hoping we'd be smart enough to make that choice on our own.

A typical anthropomorphic characterization of a God invention.

Why would God be hoping?

Christian doctrine characterizes God as omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Given that characterization, the invented God hardly needs to be “hoping” anything.

As the creator of “all that was made,” this God is all responsible. According to this doctrine, all that is was created by God.

“Hope” is a human characteristic of thought. Humans hope. Hence, you invent God in the image of man (mankind).

JAK

JAK, I was joking. Saying God is hoping is easier than saying "that what God wishes but knows will not happen due to his decision to give his creatures free will."

One of the greatest miracles God ever performed was to create creatures in his own image that can rebel against his will.

[_The Nehor]

Anyway if LDS people would watch what they eat using meat sparingly and eating grains, fruits and veggies, exercise a bit and avoid drugs, liquor and tobacco they would even be more healthy.

I think God missed it because it's not over-eating MEAT that has resulted in epidemic obesity in the US - it's over-eating of refined carbohydrates and sugar. (to say nothing of the fact that we pour artificial ingredients into our bodies every day, which may not make us fat, but make us unhealthy)

Also, the WoW was, as you point out, not a hard commandment, and when God - or whoever - decided to make it a hard commandment, he ignored the part about eating. No one is denied a temple recommend for poisoning their body with overdosing on carbohydrates or continually pouring chemicals in their bodies (like sodas).

Given the trajectory of this nation's health problems, I'd say that was a big miss.

When Mormons came to my door, I offered then hot chocolate.

They accepted and drank it. It contains caffeine, that which is prohibited in the form of coffee or tea. Mormon doctrine does not do chemistry.

JAK

Assuming of course that the Word of Wisdom is about caffeine. That's quite the logical leap.

[_Ray A]

There's nothing wrong with a little whine. Too much is bad for your health. (insert smiley here)

[_Moniker]

The Mormon obsession with alcohol as a moral issue is yet another example of how it trivializes morality.

Yes, one can abuse alcohol. In which case, the old maxim "moderation in all things" is appropriate. Yes this simple principle has been around at least since the time of Aristotle, centuries before Christ and millennia before Joseph Smith.

I have never yet met an alcoholic who didn't start with moderation. And it here that we find the nut in the nutshell. Moderation is a tough concept with alcohol.

Moderation seems to be a tough concept when it comes to french fries, chocolate donuts, and Diet Coke (have you ever noticed that it's the obese drinking diet soda?) with many Temple Rec. holder's that live around me. :-)

Hey now! I always drink diet soda. Diet Dr. Pepper to be exact. I'm not overweight!

Anyway, I do think moderation in all things in life is the key.