JAK wrote:What a restrictive and dehumanizing document to make college-age people to sign!
What relevance does it have to the academic or athletic performance of a student?
JAK
What ever gave you the idea that BYU cares about academic performance of a student? BYU is about putting couples together. Everything else is secondary. The Honor Code is about maintaining the sexual purity of each student, so they can be assured they are marrying virgins. Nothing more, nothing less.
JAK wrote:What a restrictive and dehumanizing document to make college-age people to sign!
What relevance does it have to the academic or athletic performance of a student?
JAK
What ever gave you the idea that BYU cares about academic performance of a student? BYU is about putting couples together. Everything else is secondary. The Honor Code is about maintaining the sexual purity of each student, so they can be assured they are marrying virgins. Nothing more, nothing less.
We all know you hate BYU. BYU is at last partly funded with tihting money. This comes from the CHURCH. Since the Church is footing a large part of the bill, it is reasonable that the Church can further its purposes. Its purpose is to make an envirnoment for secular learning to occur in a better environment than prevails on secular college campuses. And just like you and your children, no one who is bothered by those restrictions has to go thee.
What a restrictive and dehumanizing document to make college-age people to sign!
What relevance does it have to the academic or athletic performance of a student?
JAK
None at all. It's there because it's a religious school. People who go there are expected to be religious. If you choose not to be religious, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
the road to hana wrote:[ignore charity's patronization, again]Yes, Charity, I know all about what ward clerks do, and am well aware that a head count is taken. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm asking, how would the bishop know if the student was or was not in attendance at a student ward, unless he was specifically looking for him or her?
Most of the branch presidents I had at BYU wouldn't have had a clue who was there and who wasn't, aside from people in higher leadership callings.
I just wanted to know who was taking individual attendance, if at all.[/ignore patronization]
Nobody is "taking attendance." Today, our ward had 208 people in attendance. I think I could pretty much write out a list right now of who was there. I'll bet our elder's quorum has a really good idea of who was there from the elder's quorum. I think our Relief Presidency knows who came today and who didn't of the sisters. Ditto Primary and YM/YW. This is not some fantastic trick.
And when you begin to "miss" someone, you look for them even harder the next time. And the next. I think you are ignoring basic human memory.
The barcoded "attendance card" will solve the problem. To be expected in the near future. (hehe)
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
JAK wrote:What a restrictive and dehumanizing document to make college-age people to sign!
What relevance does it have to the academic or athletic performance of a student?
JAK
What ever gave you the idea that BYU cares about academic performance of a student? BYU is about putting couples together. Everything else is secondary. The Honor Code is about maintaining the sexual purity of each student, so they can be assured they are marrying virgins. Nothing more, nothing less.
We all know you hate BYU. BYU is at last partly funded with tihting money. This comes from the CHURCH. Since the Church is footing a large part of the bill, it is reasonable that the Church can further its purposes. Its purpose is to make an envirnoment for secular learning to occur in a better environment than prevails on secular college campuses. And just like you and your children, no one who is bothered by those restrictions has to go thee.
True, to an extent.
It does not necessarily give BYU the right to do whatever it wants, therefore, nor to expect students to meekly submit to everything it does. By consenting to the rules, students don't give up their right to protest, ask questions, expect fairness, demand accountability, and so forth.
Moreover, there's a lot of gray area and a lot of arbitrariness in the manner in which policies are both defined and implemented. You can't possibly mean to suggest that students have no legitimate rights to question any of this?
You're world view isn't that naïvely simplistic, is it?
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
This is really odd. When I attended BYU, our membership records stayed in our home ward. My home ward bishop in California signed my Ecclesiastical Endorsement every year.
The BYU Singles Wards were so huge, I don't see how anyone knew who was there and who wasn't, unless you held a calling. And, there weren't as many callings to be held as there were in a typical family ward. There was, obviously, no Primary, etc.
So, I guess your Church records are now required to be transferred to your BYU ward? That must be a paperwork nightmare. You go into a new ward every time you move. And BYU students tend to move a lot. (i.e. one dorm to another dorm...dorms to apartments...moving to different apartments, etc.)
liz3564 wrote:This is really odd. When I attended BYU, our membership records stayed in our home ward. My home ward bishop in California signed my Ecclesiastical Endorsement every year.
The BYU Singles Wards were so huge, I don't see how anyone knew who was there and who wasn't, unless you held a calling. And, there weren't as many callings to be held as there were in a typical family ward. There was, obviously, no Primary, etc.
So, I guess your Church records are now required to be transferred to your BYU ward? That must be a paperwork nightmare. You go into a new ward every time you move. And BYU students tend to move a lot. (I.e. one dorm to another dorm...dorms to apartments...moving to different apartments, etc.)
Exactly what I've been saying, liz. That was my experience, too. I don't recall ever once having a BYU branch president/bishop sign an ecclesiastical endorsement.
I still think this is going to turn into a situation where unrighteous dominion played a supporting, if not a starring, role.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
the road to hana wrote:Exactly what I've been saying, liz. That was my experience, too. I don't recall ever once having a BYU branch president/bishop sign an ecclesiastical endorsement.
I still think this is going to turn into a situation where unrighteous dominion played a supporting, if not a starring, role.
I doubt we'll ever know though I'm sure some will come to this conclusion speculatively. I'm going to just assume the student in question sacrificed babies to Satan out on the moors and deserved expulsion. This was not brought up to preserve confidentiality.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
liz3564 wrote:The BYU Singles Wards were so huge, I don't see how anyone knew who was there and who wasn't, unless you held a calling.
They pass around a roll in Elder's Quorum. They may also use the meat market menus to keep track (student ward directories with pictures).
So, abman, they DO require that your membership records are sent out to the Y now? Do you know how long that policy has been in effect? I feel old! LOL