Cognitive Dissonance -- It Sucks

[_charity]

And those of you who have decided to relieve your stress by leaving the Church have still not overcome the cogn dis problem. Many, many of you (maybe not all) still have a kernel of truth hiding in your souls, and you still know deep down that the Church is true. Which is why Elder Maxwell pointed out the problem you have. "You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone."

How do you know that, Charity? Is it possible that some of these people absolutely KNOW that the Church is false? That they absolutely believe that God is not evident and that Joseph Smith was a fraud?

If you rely on faith why can't others rely on facts?

Alfred Lord Tennyson said that nothing worth anythng can be proven.

And no, it is not possible to KNOW that the Church is false.

Why not? You KNOW the Church is true? How?

By the Spirit. You want facts to tell you something. You have to be sure you have all the facts, and that all the facts are interpreted correctly. No scientist will ever make that statement.

They may not be able to see the evidences for God. But they cannot KNOW that Joseph Smith was a fraud. They would have to KNOW that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ did not appear to him. They would have to KNOW that the object Joseph Smith had was not really a set of plates prepared by ancient prophets. There is no way to KNOW that with facts.

And you KNOW that Jesus came down and appeared to Joseph Smith, how precisely? What do you rely on to KNOW, Charity?

By the witness of the Spirit as I said. You, on the other hand, cannot possibly have facts to refute that.

[_amantha]

And those of you who have decided to relieve your stress by leaving the Church have still not overcome the cogn dis problem. Many, many of you (maybe not all) still have a kernel of truth hiding in your souls, and you still know deep down that the Church is true. Which is why Elder Maxwell pointed out the problem you have. "You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone."

How do you know that, Charity? Is it possible that some of these people absolutely KNOW that the Church is false? That they absolutely believe that God is not evident and that Joseph Smith was a fraud?

If you rely on faith why can't others rely on facts?

Alfred Lord Tennyson said that nothing worth anythng can be proven.

And no, it is not possible to KNOW that the Church is false. They may not be able to see the evidences for God. But they cannot KNOW that Joseph Smith was a fraud. They would have to KNOW that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ did not appear to him. They would have to KNOW that the object Joseph Smith had was not really a set of plates prepared by ancient prophets. There is no way to KNOW that with facts.

Thankfully, there is still hope and faith.

[_Boaz & Lidia]

And those of you who have decided to relieve your stress by leaving the Church have still not overcome the cogn dis problem. Many, many of you (maybe not all) still have a kernel of truth hiding in your souls, and you still know deep down that the Church is true. Which is why Elder Maxwell pointed out the problem you have. "You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone."

I am here to piss you off, K?

..and spread the gospel truths to unwitting members and nonmembers alike! Just today I used my new weapon in my battle against LDS Inc. Using my new iPhone, I showed a Youtube clip of the temple ceremony to a small group of coworkers after one asked about Romney's Jesus jammies. Youtube is not viewable at my workplace, so being able to use the iPhone's EDGE network to show this stuff is powerful.

I ended our little movie time by giving them all the sure-sign-o-the-nail handshake and revealing the secret names of my wife and I.

My joke about the sixth point of fellowship hug at the veil has em rolling in the isles!

So, nope, I leave the cult, but will not leave it alone because the Mormons "leave the world, but can't seem to leave the world alone".

[_charity]

And no, it is not possible to KNOW that the Church is false. They may not be able to see the evidences for God. But they cannot KNOW that Joseph Smith was a fraud. They would have to KNOW that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ did not appear to him. They would have to KNOW that the object Joseph Smith had was not really a set of plates prepared by ancient prophets. There is no way to KNOW that with facts.

Thankfully, there is still hope and faith.

Hope and faith that the Church is NOT true? But if you have no facts that stand up against the Church, why do you hope it isn't true?

[_truth dancer]

And those of you who have decided to relieve your stress by leaving the Church have still not overcome the cogn dis problem. Many, many of you (maybe not all) still have a kernel of truth hiding in your souls, and you still know deep down that the Church is true. Which is why Elder Maxwell pointed out the problem you have. "You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone."

This mantra always makes me smile. :-)

So... all the former Scientologists still know deep down that their church is true. All the former Ralians still know their church is true. All the former FLDS, JW, Catholics, (insert religion or cult of your choice here), still know deep down their church is true.

I'm not sure why I think this is funny.

It seem silly to suggest that those who have invested a life in a particular belief system, then realize it is not true, only discuss their former religion because they really believe.

Over and over and over, non-believers of all religions have shared their reasons for discussing their former beliefs (just check out the various message boards around the world). Still believers hold to the idea that former believers really know their former beliefs are true.

I can only think that this mantra helps believers hold to their belief somehow.

Funny.

~dancer~

[Guest]

Funny.

Indeed it is.
It's even funnier when charity says it, because she keeps a straight face on as she does.

Moniker,

Yeah - I know what you mean. I 'bounced' around for a couple of years or so. It's not fun.
And then I just finally made my choice - properly.
...I haven't looked back since... Not trying to say I'm perfectly happy or content. But I know any problems I have won't be solved by trying to believe something that I simply don't believe.

In a sense, charity was right when she talks about leaving the church to "relieve your stress". She might be thinking of a different kind of stress though...

[_truth dancer]

Just to clarify...

I have yet to come across a believer of any religion who really thinks hope and faith are a good thing.

Hope and faith in THEIR particular belief system is what they really mean.

~dancer~

[_charity]

I know some people who really did leave the Church. Walked away. They don't hang around anti-Mormon message boards, they don't whine about how they were deceived. They left.

What do you suppose constitutes the difference between these people and those of you who want to fight and gripe?

Oh, yes, about faith and hope. I think faith and hope are wonderful for anyone who has hope and faith in SOMETHING. But hope and faith that something will not be true? That sounds like whistling past a graveyyard to me. "Oh, I hope Mormonism isn't true, because then I am in big trouble." That kind of thing.

[Guest]

So, over the last year I've struggled quite a bit with cog dis. ...

Was this a difficult process for you?

I just want to state again -- it sucks!

Hi Moniker,

I agree. It does suck. And it will continue to suck until you resolve the cog dis. Otherwise, you will develop a pathological coping mechanism (see Charity for a good example of this).

So. The choice is to exercise common sense, or to become crazy. And I'm not kidding.

Which do you want?

[Guest]

I know some people who really did leave the Church. Walked away. They don't hang around anti-Mormon message boards, they don't whine about how they were deceived. They left.

So do I. I mentioned this recently...
...they never really cared whether the church is actually 'true' or not. (Either IN or OUT). They just couldn't be bothered to live it.

I know plenty of people like that. And no - I doubt they'd have much interest in hanging around a message board and talk about Mormonism (whether an 'anti' board or otherwise).

As I remember charity, you didn't appreciate me being on FAIR / MADB either. You made that very clear right from day one. So not much point making this about hanging around 'anti' boards (not that I consider this an 'anti' board, but I know you do...), as we both know that's not the 'clincher' for you...