Cognitive Dissonance -- It Sucks

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_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

Moniker wrote:I pushed it to the back so that I could still believe... defend...

That's exactly what I did. For approx. 2-odd years...
It was a relief to finally let go. You'll probably find it a relief too I imagine...! (Maybe it's already happened - or happening...)

Whew. Cog dis sucks!

Yeah - it does.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance -- It Sucks

Post by _Some Schmo »

Moniker wrote: I would assume that a few (or a lot) of you on this board dealt with this and had to at some point no longer rely on "feelings", and rationalizations in order to see the "truth". Was denial something that you dealt with when confronted with history or unsavory aspects of the Church that you had to come to terms with?

Was this a difficult process for you?


Well, since I never really believed the church was true, I never had any cog dis over it, but I certainly had it over other things related to the church (and it would be fair to say that I likely still suffer from it. I see it as the human condition and the denial mechanism, not just a way of psychologically dealing with the silliness of Mormonism).

I remember back when I first started visiting the exmo boards posting to a thread related to gay marriage, taking the side that I didn't think it was a good idea. Obviously, I was confronted on this, and the thread went on for several pages.

I remember sitting on my couch, thinking about the conversation, and asking myself, "Honestly, [Schmo], why do you think homosexuality is wrong?" And this feeling washed over me, and I had an epiphany. The answer was simple. "Homosexuality makes me, personally, feel uncomfortable." That was it. I had no other logical, valid reasons for calling it wrong except for the way it made me personally feel. When I realized that it was just an emotional reaction to the thought of same sex behavior, it occurred to me that my feelings on it were inherited. My father had no problem preaching on the evils of homosexuality, and my feelings on the subject confirmed to me what he was saying must be true.

But at the same time, all along, I had met several gay people and always... well... really liked them. They consistently seemed like good people to me; in fact, they were some of the kindest, most giving people I'd ever met. And there’s never been any doubt that these people were born with a predisposition to homosexuality (unless they’re all really great actors who all act like… well, how all homosexuals act, I guess… I wonder who first came up with that façade, if it’s just an act…) Were these people really deranged as the religious types would have us believe? Or is it more likely that the religious types don't have any valid reasons for thinking it's wrong either, and are just speaking from their ill-informed gut as well?

From that point on, I vowed I would never speak out against homosexuality again, and can spot the bigots in a heartbeat. I find myself defending their right to be who they are on message boards (and in real life), and feel a little sadness when I consider the long history of BS they've had to put up with in the name of religion, and particularly, the apparently good-willed, "people loving" Christians.

EDIT: by the way, to answer your question about whether this was a difficult process for me or not, I have to say that it was one of the most exhilarating experiences of my life. It felt like a major weight was lifted off my shoulders. I no longer had to carry a prejudice toward gay people. It was awesome!

I imagine it's far more difficult for people to go through the process of giving up their belief in Mormonism. Fortunately, I never had to deal with that. In fact, the process for me was more like talking to other exmos who confirmed and validated all the thoughts I had about Mormonism over the years. That's actually been a very gratifying process as well.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Moniker
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance -- It Sucks

Post by _Moniker »

Some Schmo wrote: I find myself defending their right to be who they are on message boards (and in real life), and feel a little sadness when I consider the long history of BS they've had to put up with in the name of religion, and particularly, the apparently good-willed, "people loving" Christians.


I just adore you!
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

Antishock8, thanks for posting the link to your exit story. I hadn't read it before, despite interacting with you now and then over on RfM. I find these autobiographies quite interesting, in large part because they're usually so different from my own experiences.

I was never "in" as far and in large part I did walk away, far away, quite easily. The best/worst thing Mormonism did to/for me was to give me an example of what I didn't want---it made it clear to me on what "side" I was on across a range of cultural issues. Now it's interesting to return to in a more disinterested and scholarly fashion (though as with anything autobiographical its impossible to be completely disinterested). I find early Mormon history fascinating, but this is in large part because I've recently found a lot of western american history more interesting than I once did.

It's something altogether different to contemplate the kind of situation that others were, and some still are, in. To make such difficult decisions, decisions on which SO much rests for oneself and all the others one cares about (i.e., you're not just deciding what you individually believe but allegedly putting your whole family's salvation/happiness at risk) is a horrifying venture to me. How anyone lives through it is astounding.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

Blixa wrote:It's something altogether different to contemplate the kind of situation that others were, and some still are, in. To make such difficult decisions, decisions on which SO much rests for oneself and all the others one cares about (I.e., you're not just deciding what you individually believe but allegedly putting your whole family's salvation/happiness at risk) is a horrifying venture to me. How anyone lives through it is astounding.

I don't think even my closest friends really got what a big deal it was for me to leave the church. What a massive decision that was for me. When I told them I wasn't going anymore, I think the shrug of their shoulders lasted about 2 seconds.
Of course, my BEST friends weren't in the church and didn't give a flying hoot if I went or not. That's why they are still my friends today...

I'm just glad I didn't go as far as getting married in the temple. It's one thing to walk away from the two years of your mission, any tithing you've paid, having your family view you 'differently' etc.
...it's another thing to put your marriage in jeopardy...
_charity
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Post by _charity »

the road to hana wrote:
How do you know they don't post on discussion boards? How do you know what their lives are like intimately?


That's an interesting concept. There are a couple who have continued on as friends. When we talk, if I mention being in the temple last week, they don't recoil in horror or start laughing behind their hands. It is hard for me to imagine that they have their nice, friendly faces on with me, and then go on an anti-message board and assume a whole different persona.

I can tell you people, what you see here is who I am. I don't put on a different personality when I go out the door.
_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

charity wrote:There are a couple who have continued on as friends. When we talk, if I mention being in the temple last week, they don't recoil in horror or start laughing behind their hands.

If you believe that most ex-Mormons on this board would have this reaction, then I don't believe you are reading this board very well.
...or you are seeing exactly what you want to see...
Last edited by Guest on Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_the road to hana
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Post by _the road to hana »

charity wrote:
the road to hana wrote:
How do you know they don't post on discussion boards? How do you know what their lives are like intimately?


That's an interesting concept. There are a couple who have continued on as friends. When we talk, if I mention being in the temple last week, they don't recoil in horror or start laughing behind their hands. It is hard for me to imagine that they have their nice, friendly faces on with me, and then go on an anti-message board and assume a whole different persona.

I can tell you people, what you see here is who I am. I don't put on a different personality when I go out the door.


Huh. And do you go to them and tell them how much you hate former Mormons? Would they be surprised if you did?

Charity, I'm friends with many currently active Mormons, including family and close friends. I wouldn't dream of "recoiling in horror" if they mentioned being in the temple last week, or laughing behind my hands.

And what they see is what they get with me, too. I'm not two different personas. I doubt Daniel Peterson is out arguing the gospel in public when he meets non-members; I imagine he is gracious to member and non-member alike, even though he might be arguing in defense of what he believes is correct on message boards.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
_Always Thinking
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Post by _Always Thinking »

RenegadeOfPhunk wrote:
Blixa wrote:It's something altogether different to contemplate the kind of situation that others were, and some still are, in. To make such difficult decisions, decisions on which SO much rests for oneself and all the others one cares about (I.e., you're not just deciding what you individually believe but allegedly putting your whole family's salvation/happiness at risk) is a horrifying venture to me. How anyone lives through it is astounding.

I don't think even my closest friends really got what a big deal it was for me to leave the church. What a massive decision that was for me. When I told them I wasn't going anymore, I think the shrug of their shoulders lasted about 2 seconds.
Of course, my BEST friends weren't in the church and didn't give a flying hoot if I went or not. That's why they are still my friends today...

I'm just glad I didn't go as far as getting married in the temple. It's one thing to walk away from the two years of your mission, any tithing you've paid, having your family view you 'differently' etc.
...it's another thing to put your marriage in jeopardy...


My dh was concerned about our marriage when he first started doubting, but he quickly saw that I viewed my marriage as more "true" than the church. It never once even entered my mind to leave him, even though I was very much TBM. Eventually, I came around to his way of thinking (it has taken a long time). Truthfully, it shocked me to find that out about myself. I had no idea I was capable of NOT believing!

So, I would have to say that our marriage was never put in jeopardy, but even still, being married (before leaving) just adds another dimension to leaving the church. Brings you in deeper, if you will. We now have children, cousins, aunts, uncles, and grandparents on both sides of our families to deal with. ALL of our relatives are LDS. We not only have to deal with our own lives, but how each side of the family will deal with our choices.

Blixa wrote:It's something altogether different to contemplate the kind of situation that others were, and some still are, in. To make such difficult decisions, decisions on which SO much rests for oneself and all the others one cares about (I.e., you're not just deciding what you individually believe but allegedly putting your whole family's salvation/happiness at risk) is a horrifying venture to me. How anyone lives through it is astounding.


That is pretty much how I see it.
_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

Always Thinking wrote:My dh was concerned about our marriage when he first started doubting, but he quickly saw that I viewed my marriage as more "true" than the church. It never once even entered my mind to leave him, even though I was very much TBM. Eventually, I came around to his way of thinking (it has taken a long time). Truthfully, it shocked me to find that out about myself. I had no idea I was capable of NOT believing!

So, I would have to say that our marriage was never put in jeopardy, but even still, being married (before leaving) just adds another dimension to leaving the church. Brings you in deeper, if you will. We now have children, cousins, aunts, uncles, and grandparents on both sides of our families to deal with. ALL of our relatives are LDS. We not only have to deal with our own lives, but how each side of the family will deal with our choices.

Well, your husband obviously got lucky with you :)
I'm not sure I'd have had such good fortune! Heh.

But yeah - it depends how people handle it. It can work, but it's an added pressure...
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