President Monson, President Eyring, President Uchtdorf

[_Boaz & Lidia]

If the Book of Mormon has no basis in fact, neither does any of the rest of it. That was clearly taught when I was a Mormon, you know, back in the day before the church realized it had a credibility problem and was still willing to make unilateral statements like that. The tapdancing that goes on now is enough by itself to prove to any reasonable person that the church is built on falsity.

You are right about one thing. If the Book of Mormon is false, everything else is.

There is no credibility problem, and the leaders of the Church have never thought there was, among the population that matters. And that population is the faithful, and those willing to accept the witness of the spirit. The gospel is going to all the world so that who will accept have the chance to hear the word of the Lord and obey Him. The Church has never taught that all will accept.

And quite frankly, if you have had an opportunity to accept and you rejected it, your opinion about it doesn't really matter. If you think there is tapdancing, you haven't been listening to leaders of the Church speak about the Book of Mormon.

No no no, sweet sister chariddittity, Gordon often said the FIRST VISION was the keystone to the Mormon archway.

Back up to were your prophet was, "If the First vision did not happen as it was told, then this entire work is a fraud."

[_Boaz & Lidia]

It is only natural that the President would want his councilors to be on the same wavelength to have a happy and harmonious First Presidency.

Monson is out of it.

IF he is on meds, he ought to share with the hyperactive Eyring and Uberdork.

[_ludwigm]

If the Book of Mormon has no basis in fact, neither does any of the rest of it.
...

You are right about one thing. If the Book of Mormon is false, everything else is.
...

This sentence is worth of remembering.

[_charity]

If the Book of Mormon has no basis in fact, neither does any of the rest of it.
...

You are right about one thing. If the Book of Mormon is false, everything else is.
...

This sentence is worth of remembering.

President Ezra Taft Benson: “Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1986, 5; or Ensign, Nov. 1986, 6).

[_ludwigm]

If the Book of Mormon has no basis in fact, neither does any of the rest of it.
...

You are right about one thing. If the Book of Mormon is false, everything else is.
...

This sentence is worth of remembering.

President Ezra Taft Benson: “Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1986, 5; or Ensign, Nov. 1986, 6).

I did know this. as far as I know, there was another pres. who has said something very similar. At this minute I don't remember the details.

[_BishopRic]

If the Book of Mormon has no basis in fact, neither does any of the rest of it.
...

You are right about one thing. If the Book of Mormon is false, everything else is.
...

This sentence is worth of remembering.

President Ezra Taft Benson: “Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1986, 5; or Ensign, Nov. 1986, 6).

My earlier point exactly! And you don't think discussing the LGT/HGT has anything to do with "doctrine?"

"It's true! It's true! It's true...even if we don't know how or where it happened, or if the Native American ancestors really were the Lamanites, or where the "other" Hill Cumorah was, or if we can find any scientific evidence of its history.

Have faith!"

[Anonymous]

Charity, the church has fallen over the non-truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, only you choose not to see it that way. You're one of the hangers-on. The 3 or 4 million LDS in the world are a very small, and not very significant niche. To almost everybody in the world, Mormonism is just one more fairly small religious sect. Your sort just chalks that up to the work of Satan, or accounts for it as the necessary "opposition" in all things, and the whole siege mentality kicks in to explain away and justify to your minds why it is that the whole world "just doesn't get it", ie: why the church has the truth and it seems almost nobody agrees.

If it weren't for past generations of Mormons reproducing like bunny rabbits, there wouldn't even be 3 or 4 million active LDS today. Were it not for all those 10+ children families, this religion might well have dried out like a raisin 50 years ago. Even so, as the LDS birthrate drops closer in line with national averages, the growth rate of the church is stagnating, and retention rates are abysmal worldwide. It's all more of that wily Satan's doing, I suppose.

Kind of interestingly, the JWs say the same thing. Everybody would be JW if Satan weren't out their deceiving people and blinding them to the truth. I bet probably every single church or religion out there blames some sort of bogeyman like Satan for the reason everybody else in the world doesn't share their beliefs.

[_Sethbag]

President Ezra Taft Benson: “Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1986, 5; or Ensign, Nov. 1986, 6).

My earlier point exactly! And you don't think discussing the LGT/HGT has anything to do with "doctrine?"

"It's true! It's true! It's true...even if we don't know how or where it happened, or if the Native American ancestors really were the Lamanites, or where the "other" Hill Cumorah was, or if we can find any scientific evidence of its history.

Have faith!"

Exactly. So the keystone of the Mormon religion is actually vaporware. Charity, how much strength does vaporware have? One hint: the biggest power vaporware has is literally all in peoples' minds. Sound familiar?

[_charity]

My earlier point exactly! And you don't think discussing the LGT/HGT has anything to do with "doctrine?"

"It's true! It's true! It's true...even if we don't know how or where it happened, or if the Native American ancestors really were the Lamanites, or where the "other" Hill Cumorah was, or if we can find any scientific evidence of its history.

Have faith!"

Exactly. It is all about faith. I have heard the idea expressed, (I don't know that I believe it, necessarily, however,) That there will never be archeological proof of the Book of Mormon discovered because then the book would not have to be taken on faith. And that is the whole point.

This life is a test. Remember that? Do you believe or do you not believe? I can't imagine the following testimony on fast day. "I know the Book of Mormon is true because Dr. Digalot has just found Zarahemla."

[_Who Knows]

Exactly. It is all about faith. I have heard the idea expressed, (I don't know that I believe it, necessarily, however,) That there will never be archeological proof of the Book of Mormon discovered because then the book would not have to be taken on faith. And that is the whole point.

This life is a test. Remember that? Do you believe or do you not believe? I can't imagine the following testimony on fast day. "I know the Book of Mormon is true because Dr. Digalot has just found Zarahemla."

What's so noble, or great, or praiseworthy about accepting something on faith alone? And inversely, what's so wrong about accepting something because of cold, hard facts? I don't get it.