Has a mountain been moved in recent history?

[_karl61]

The only game allowed in Outer Darkness is CandyLand. It's meant to encourage people to leave.

I'm sure there are a lot of playstation games allowed in Outer Darkness.

[_The Nehor]

The only game allowed in Outer Darkness is CandyLand. It's meant to encourage people to leave.

I'm sure there are a lot of playstation games allowed in Outer Darkness.

They only let you play Battletoads......on hard mode. Truly they have forsaken all that is good and sane.

[_bcspace]

Are faith-powered miracles only ever happening in circumstances where it could not be proven that they had happened at all?

Well, if you lack faith, why would God show such to you? Are you sure you'd want such a miracle directed at you so you could see and believe?

<insert vision of sethbag crying out "I believe! I believe!" as a mountain comes down on him>

[_JAK]

God doesn't do for us what we can do for ourselves. If we need a mountain moved we get the big LeTourneaus out and move it. God doesn't do the couch potato's job for him.

You are exactly right. God helps those who help themselves.

It is a very small stone's throw to deduce that it is man who is doing it all. God just conveniently gets some credit if things work out well.

So which part is God doing? Short answer. Nothing. Man is God.

Not correct in conclusion (if serious).

Man is a species which has evolved over hundreds of thousands of years. He is as much a product of evolution as any species. However, no evidence supports a conclusion “Man is God.”

And no evidence has been established for any of the many, many God claims.

The geography of the earth is constantly changing. But the change is over far longer periods of time that a human life-time. Since the earth is 4.7 billion years old, it has undergone continuous change over time. Until the present, man has had little to do with it.

Now with more than 6 billion people living on earth, the behavior of man is altering the earth – particularly its climate.

(If you’re joking, just disregard this.)

JAK

You don't see god as evolutionary? I do. And I am serious. He has a tendency to change with the cultures and customs of the people proclaiming to speak on his behalf. The Mormon God, the one who most reveals himself and his will to the people, is the most evolutionary one of all. God is a mirror reflection of the people.

by the way, I've moved mountains this week. Lots of them. They're five feet high mountains of snow on my front lawn.

Prove the claim!

First, establish clear, transparent, open to skeptical review your claim: God.

Absent that, further claims are irrelevant. You also need to establish your claim: God is male.

Or do you argue that God (presently male) will evolve into she?

How relevant is the dinosaur? The various species of dinosaurs evolved and are now extinct. They occupied the earth for 165,000,000 years. That’s far longer than the human species can be traced.

What's your God claim for that period of earth's 4.7 billion year history?

Let’s see you offer specifics for your “evolutionary” claim.

Just when (in your view) did God evolve?

Was it A: after the human species evolved?

Was it B: before the earth (scientific consensus earth is 4.5 to 4.7 billion years old)?

Was it C: before the “Big Bang” (scientific consensus places that about 14 billion earth years ago)?

Was it D: some other time?

Is it E: God is presently headed for extinction?

You can just make up anything you like, Trinity.

Proving it or offering the kind of evidence which is clear, transparent, and open to skeptical review is quite another thing.

As religious claims rely on truth by assertion, such claims are unreliable.

I doubt that you’re serious. If you are, you can answer the questions here posed.

JAK

[_Who Knows]

Well, if you lack faith, why would God show such to you? Are you sure you'd want such a miracle directed at you so you could see and believe?

Well, yes, I'd expect god, if he exists, to show me. I'd expect nothing less.

Again, you and charity both. What's the fascination with faith? What's so great about it? I still don't get it (despite charity's numerous failed attempts to explain it to me).

[_bcspace]

Well, if you lack faith, why would God show such to you? Are you sure you'd want such a miracle directed at you so you could see and believe?

Well, yes, I'd expect god, if he exists, to show me. I'd expect nothing less.

Well, the religion I accept has miracles following those who believe or being the recipient of them believers or not for purposes other than to prove He exists. Perhaps you should end your fascination with it.

Again, you and charity both. What's the fascination with faith? What's so great about it? I still don't get it (despite charity's numerous failed attempts to explain it to me).

In one sense, I could care less about your faith.

[_bcspace]

Another way to look at this is to ask "Is there a requirement, scientific or otherwise, for God to have moved a mountain now or in the recent past?"

[_Who Knows]

Well, the religion I accept has miracles following those who believe or being the recipient of them believers or not for purposes other than to prove He exists. Perhaps you should end your fascination with it.

Hey, you asked. I answered.

In one sense, I could care less about your faith.

I was talking about faith in general. You know, having faith in god. Not faith in the sense of referring to a specific set of beliefs.

I'm just curious as to why you think belief just based solely on faith is somehow more noble or great vs. belief based on seeing something (facts).

But if you could care less, then piss off. :)

[_Scottie]

God used to allow mountains to be moved from time to time by intensely faithful individuals, back when we couldn't prove it had happened.

As I recall, you only need a mustard seed of faith.

[_Sethbag]

When I was in my mid teens, I was feeling very faithful. This is a true story, by the way, and not a joke, or anything sarcastic. I had somewhat recently had my faith challenged to a certain extent, and had come down squarely on the side of my faith, and of the Lord. I had read and studied hard in the scriptures, believe it or not (I read the whole standard works at least once before my mission), and knew that with faith only the size of a mustard seed (very small) one could move mountains. I read about the apostle Peter failing to walk on water because he lacked the faith. I read in scriptures where it said ask in faith and you shall receive.

One evening I went down to a pond in front of my house and approached the water's edge. I felt myself compelled to walk on water, in faith. I felt trepidation. I didn't want to try it, because something inside me warned against the possibility that it wouldn't work. There was that same fear that prevents most priesthood holders today from pronouncing powerful blessings when administering to the sick, for secret fear that it won't work. I faced that fear that evening. Knowing that a part of me resisted walking on water for fear that it wouldn't work, I faced that fear and resolved to do it anyway, in an act of unwavering faith. I got to the water's edge, prayed fervently, asking the Lord to bless me in my faith and allow this water-walking to succeed. Nobody was there. I didn't plan to tell anyone about it. It was just me, alone, in the late evening. And so, steeling my resolve, and excercise great faith that it was possible, and indeed would work because I had great faith, I stepped out over the water.

And my foot went right through the surface and came to rest on the bottom 6 or 8 inches down.

Didn't work. I wasn't seeking a sign. I wasn't trying to get out of anything by being lazy. I was working on my faith, and resolving to possess great faith, and to believe, and to believe that what the scriptures said was literally true. And to act on that, and demonstrate my faith to the Lord.

And it didn't work. Now let the rationalizing begin. Maybe I wasn't faithful enough. Gimme a break. A mustard seed is pretty darn small, and this wasn't moving a mountain, it was just a little step out onto the pond. I had a mustard seed's worth of faith, and moreso. Just how high does the "enough faith" bar have to be raised? How many of you TBMs on this board have actually prayed to the Lord and tried to walk on water, actually meaning to do it, and believing that it would really work?

Or was my motive wrong? Was I just "sign-seeking"? Did I do it wrong? Or was God just not in the mood? Was it not "his will?"