bcspace wrote:So tell me, what is the POINT of something being "Official Doctrine" if you confess that it may not be <I>true</I> depending on modern revelation?
If modern revelation exists, where is the problem?The problem with believing the church's own statements about what is and is not doctrine changes all the time.
There has been no change in this standard for 30+ years; as long as I've been cognizant of such things.For example, the Adam God Doctrine. Brigham Young actually claimed it was a REVELATION from God, and even went so far as to have it taught in the endowment (Lecture at the veil) for over 40 years till Bishop bunker put his membership on the line to fight against it.
This is not a question of what is and is not doctrine. It's a question of what BY actually taught. BY NEVER taught anything like Adam-God. For him to have done so it would've contradicted other statements he made about God in the JoD. Instead, comparing the statements in question with other statements he made in the WWJ, we find something completely different.
As for it being taught as doctrine, even back then it would not have met the standards for doctrine. Current standards are rooted in D&C 107 which gives equal authority to the First Presideincy and the Qo12. Those two bodies would have to agree with BY's statements before such a thing ever became doctrine.
Wow, I'm almost speechless. For someone who professes to be so knowledgeable, you really are pretty ignorant on the topic of Adam God. Let me guess, you read some 2 page Fairlds.org essay/review on the Adam-God theory? I used to believe the same things you just mentioned above until I did my own research, read the original sources, asked a guy who works in the church archives and found out such claims are NOT true. Brigham Young DID indeed believe and teach the Adam God theory. For all his faults of twisting things out of the extreme for his own purposes, even Bruce R McConkie couldn't bring himself to lie and say Brigham didn't preach the Adam-God Theory:
"Yes, President Young did teach that Adam was the father of our spirits, and all the related things ... ascribe[d] to him ... He expressed views that are out of harmony with the gospel." -BRM
McConkie admitted it many times, and others have admitted it as well. It's a pretty well known FACT that Brigham believed and taught it. As I said, he almost ex-communicated Orson Pratt over the doctrine. Check the Minutes of Meeting of Council of the Twelve in Historian’s Office; April 5, 1860; also Brigham Young Papers Collection, Church Historian's office. You REALLY need to look up the trial of Bishop Edward Bunker and see Woodruff and Joseph F Smith's responses to the Matter which proves almost all leaders since BY also believed and taught the Adam God theory in the temple as well. It lasted for 40+ YEARS.
We could mention all the newspapers, journals, etc all on separate occasions individually recording the SAME claims pretty darn detailed. It's impossible to deny that EVERYONE of them got it wrong and not a single person at several of the discourse actually happened to write it down correctly. They all made the SAME mistakes over and over again. Several witnesses per discourse at multiple discourses for dozens of years. You're fooling yourself buddy. The old Lecture at the veil (given feb 7th 1877) is pretty telling though, as was his Oct. 8, 1854 discourse and countless others we could mention. If you REALLY want to ignorantly believe Brigham never taught the Adam God theory because it hurts your understanding of how to know when something is true or doctrine, then go on ignorantly fooling yourself like I used to try to do too. When you're ready to believe the truth, try reading ALL the sources on the matter PERSONALLY, contact someone in the archives or historians office to try to verify sources, etc if necessary. I did. It's impossible to claim BY never taught or believed it. It's absolutely clear that he did. It's also pretty clear that BY was wrong. Even McConkie and most LDS leaders with access to all Brigham's journals, etc admit that Brigham certainly taught and believed it. If McConkie could've twisted it claim otherwise, he certainly would have. He twisted lots of things to agree with his opinions, but not the Adam God Doctrine. That one he outright admitted was truly taught entirely as the break off groups claimed, but that it just was wrong. Brigham even claimed it was a revelation...he was just wrong. That's the point here. I mean, to each his own...you can believe what some less than honest or uninformed apologist told you about it, or you can believe leaders like McConkie and also read all the sources for yourself. Knowing the truth about the Adam God doesn't make the church false. It simply helps you better learn how church policies work. Anyway...enough has been said about Adam God for purposes of informing you. I could post all sorts of things to seal the deal and prove the point, but if you're as closed minded as you've appeared in the last few posts, you'll just go on thinking there was some "Scribal error" and Brigham Young never actually taught or believed it. It's members like you that keep me quiet in priesthood and Sunday School knowing that you already think you know everything about church history and the gospel so it's pointless to participate as it won't do anyone any good.