The unbelieving Fifth Column

[_KimberlyAnn]

I don't understand Will's venom.

I do know that I could never have attended the Mormon church as a disbeliever. I'd rather go through a divorce than sit through Sacrament meeting and I made that very clear to my family. I'm kinda all or nothing that way.

Other disaffected Mormons don't feel the way I do, and choose to attend for their own personal reasons. That's much less of a threat to Mormonism than having apostates leave altogether. Will's concern makes no sense to me. Many of the spouses and children of NOM's still attend church and pay tithing, fattening the Mormon church's coffers. When I left, my whole family eventually left, too, taking a total of eleven people off the rolls and keeping an indeterminate number of posterity from ever getting on them in the first place. They'll never see another red cent from any of us.

John, I don't understand Will's antagonistic behavior. He's not given me a hard time at all. I think perhaps you don't have breasts that leave him "twitterpated". ;)

KA

[_beastie]

No doubt all those closet nonbelievers are really attending church because they want "to destroy the church", and not because their TBM spouses are emotionally blackmailing them into attending.

[_the road to hana]

I went back and read the MA&D thread. I think there are several different categories.

I'm all for honesty. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE CHURCH IS TRUE, I have no problem with you continuing to attend meetings on the following conditions:

Don't lie to the bishop to get a temple recommend.
Don't hold any callings where youth or children are in the stewardship or where teaching if part of the duties.
Don't take the sacrament, even if everone looks at you.
Don't speak out against any doctrine or teaching which is a part of Church doctrine or teachings inside any Church building.

If your whole purpose is to surreptitiously damage the Church, and Will can find you, you deserve to be ex-ed.

You sound like a mother talking to her children, Charity.

Most exmos who attend don't go in for bishop's interviews, for obvious reasons.

Most exmos who attend don't hold callings, for obvious reasons.

Most exmos who attend don't take the sacrament, but if they do, it's unlikely it's any more problematic than a toddler doing it.

Most exmos who attend don't preach against Mormonism within its walls, again, for obvious reasons.

Now, there's an entirely different category here which includes current members. Those are not the same as exmos. You might think they're the same; they're not.

Exmos are people who got divorced. Current members are those struggling to keep their marriages together.

When I attend LDS meetings, as I have done off-and-on periodically from the time I left the church, it has always been to support family. A baby blessing, a baptism, visiting relatives, or them visiting me, or attending with family otherwise.

I do not go there to destroy anything, anymore than I would go into someone else's home as a guest to destroy their home.

I haven't taken the sacrament there for years, for my own reasons, but I doubt if I did anyone would think anything about it, except me.

I can't even imagine being in a situation where I'd be called in by a bishop or given a calling. They know I'm not a member. Period. When I'm visiting out of town, it's a moot point.

I have visited classes, and even participated when asked. It has never been divisive or confrontational.

You have some strange notions about what people are like in real life. Most exmos have no desire to be inside an LDS Church unless they have to, and generally, there are situations if they have family members who are still Mormon that bring them there.

They don't walk up to the stand on Fast Sunday to bear their anti-testimony. They're more likely sitting quietly in the congregation, looking pretty unobtrusive.

[_Runtu]

"For the record . . . ." Interesting that you don't fit within that definition. You prefer to make anonymous public posts to destroy everybody's testimony. I don't understand why you waste your time; it would seem to me if I were in your position I'd do what you describe -- watch football. It is this rather incongruous position you're in which compels some folks to believe that there's this conspiracy to damage the church.

You crack me up, Bob. I'm neither anonymous or interested in destroying testimonies. I'd rather be watching football too, but because I'm a despicable coward I go to church with my wife.

Runtu -- the former Church employee, with lots of inside knowledge of Church operations, now the subtle, not-too-confrontational doubter (and self-loather along the way, self-loathing because of the Church)

Nothing in that sentence is correct except that I used to work for the Church.

[_beastie]

Nothing in that sentence is correct except that I used to work for the Church.

That means Bob's batting average is intact.

[_charity]

Beastie, I am sure that there are people who attend Church, pretend they are still believers, for family reasons.

But I don't know how a person who says they can't stand the "fact" that there are lies, etc. in the Church can live a lie themselves.

Do you deny that some of those who express their hatred of the Church on this board who are still attending aren't trying to sink the Church surreptitiously?

[_Runtu]

Nothing in that sentence is correct except that I used to work for the Church.

That means Bob's batting average is intact.

I've decided that folks like Bob and Will take all this way too seriously. Maybe I should have business cards printed up that say "John Williams: non-confrontational self-loather."

I posted Will's remarks on another board, and someone said (rightly, in my judgment) that Will's plan for seeking out and exposing doubters would be a far more effective way of destroying the church from within than anything we DAMU members could come up with.

[_truth dancer]

Do you deny that some of those who express their hatred of the Church on this board who are still attending aren't trying to sink the Church surreptitiously?

I do not know of anyone who has expressed hatred of the church who still attends.

In addition, I do not know of anyone on the board who attends to try to surreptitiously sink the church.

About whom are you talking?

~dancer~

[_Runtu]

Beastie, I am sure that there are people who attend Church, pretend they are still believers, for family reasons.

But I don't know how a person who says they can't stand the "fact" that there are lies, etc. in the Church can live a lie themselves.

Do you deny that some of those who express their hatred of the Church on this board who are still attending aren't trying to sink the Church surreptitiously?

I don't pretend to be a believer, but going to church does constitute a lie in itself. At some point, I'm sure I won't be able to do it any longer. But I don't care to "sink the church," surreptitiously or otherwise.

[_KimberlyAnn]

I don't pretend to be a believer, but going to church does constitute a lie in itself. At some point, I'm sure I won't be able to do it any longer. But I don't care to "sink the church," surreptitiously or otherwise.

Does going to church constitute a lie, John? I don't think it does if your family knows you disbelieve. You don't feign belief for the Bishop, either, so I don't see how your attendance could be considered a lie.

KA