The unbelieving Fifth Column

[_charity]

runtu, what do you think happens when someone, lurker, whoever, reads something that is said on a message board? Aren't they "taught?" Frequently, someone makes a post, even in this thread, that something I said leads them to believe the Church really does teach something or other. That isn't teaching? Rollo has to stand accountable for whatever he says, anonymously or not. As do we all.

And you have shown that you have ferreted out my real name. You know where I live, at least generally. Not by house number. That sort of puts a lie to the fact that this can be truly anonymous.

[_Runtu]

runtu, what do you think happens when someone, lurker, whoever, reads something that is said on a message board? Aren't they "taught?" Frequently, someone makes a post, even in this thread, that something I said leads them to believe the Church really does teach something or other. That isn't teaching? Rollo has to stand accountable for whatever he says, anonymously or not. As do we all.

So, expressing an opinion equals "teaching"?

And you have shown that you have ferreted out my real name. You know where I live, at least generally. Not by house number. That sort of puts a lie to the fact that this can be truly anonymous.

I didn't ferret out your real name. Quite some time ago you mentioned an Ensign article you wrote (and I'm not sure, but I think you linked to it). And no, I don't know where you live other than somewhere in the Northwest.

[_the road to hana]

Will was talking about those who are only ex-mo's in their hearts. On the outside, they are still active members. Attending Church , etc. That is the group I was referring to, of course. Don't be so paranoid.

There's no such animal. It's like being a little bit pregnant. People are either exmos, or they aren't. If they're still participating on some level, they're not exmos.

Just like people who haven't been baptized aren't really "Mormons," if they're just Mormons in their heart. They have to be baptized and on church rolls to actually be LDS.

The people Will is talking about are struggling members, which probably accounts for a greater percentage of the membership than you realize.

[_the road to hana]

Hana, you are being paranoid!

You sweet talker, you.

If the description doesn't fit you, then why should you get all up in the air?

This is what I see over and over here. I make a statement about a person of a specific description, and then all that comes back is "Are you talking about me?" Only if you are the like the person I described. If you aren't, then cool your jets.

You frequently misattribute quotes, so the question was justified.

[_the road to hana]

Beastie, I am sure that there are people who attend Church, pretend they are still believers, for family reasons.

But I don't know how a person who says they can't stand the "fact" that there are lies, etc. in the Church can live a lie themselves.

Do you deny that some of those who express their hatred of the Church on this board who are still attending aren't trying to sink the Church surreptitiously?

If you're referring to PP(Boaz), Merc, and Infymus, none of them attend Church on a regular basis. PP doesn't attend at all. I believe that Merc and Infymus occasionally attend Church for extended family functions.

Rollo Tomasi comes to mind. He has said he is an active member. But he is as dangerous as they come with some of the things he has said he has done, and the attitudes he has.

How is that more dangerous than the president of the LDS Church going on national television and saying something contrary to doctrine?

Harmony has expressed such disdain for the prophets and leaders, doctrines and practices of the Church, that the only way she can be getting a temple recommend, which she says she has, is be blinking, swallowing hard and keeping her fingers crossed during the temple recommend interview.

Peter betrayed Jesus thrice, but still was chosen and blessed to carry on and lead the building of the kingdom.

These are exactly those that Will described in the quoted paragraph.

Those are not exmos. Those are struggling mo's. Those are people who are not unlike people trying to keep a marriage together. They're finding their way. Would you like them better if they decided they were completely done with it all, and left? That doesn't sound very Christlike to me.

I've seen you state LDS doctrine incorrectly on these message boards. How is that benign to the unsuspecting lurker? It isn't. You are as complicit as anyone. Any person who stakes a claim in understanding LDS doctrine and expounding on it is responsible in some part for its veracity. That doesn't make you exempt. Fortunately, I imagine you turn more lurkers away from Mormonism than you entice.

[_charity]

runtu, what do you think happens when someone, lurker, whoever, reads something that is said on a message board? Aren't they "taught?" Frequently, someone makes a post, even in this thread, that something I said leads them to believe the Church really does teach something or other. That isn't teaching? Rollo has to stand accountable for whatever he says, anonymously or not. As do we all.

So, expressing an opinion equals "teaching"?

Yes.

And you have shown that you have ferreted out my real name. You know where I live, at least generally. Not by house number. That sort of puts a lie to the fact that this can be truly anonymous.

I didn't ferret out your real name. Quite some time ago you mentioned an Ensign article you wrote (and I'm not sure, but I think you linked to it). And no, I don't know where you live other than somewhere in the Northwest.

But we aren't really anonymous if someone goes to any work. Your real name is out here, although I don't think you ever posted it. And I know someone who knows your real name. I have never asked her what it is, however. The point is that we are known. That makes what we say not just some anonymous rambling.

[_charity]

If the description doesn't fit you, then why should you get all up in the air?

This is what I see over and over here. I make a statement about a person of a specific description, and then all that comes back is "Are you talking about me?" Only if you are the like the person I described. If you aren't, then cool your jets.

You frequently misattribute quotes, so the question was justified.

Are you saying that the quote function doesn't work? If I can't find the quote, I will say "someone" said. Now, if you see yourself in that, then should I take your judgement for it?

[_Runtu]

But we aren't really anonymous if someone goes to any work. Your real name is out here, although I don't think you ever posted it. And I know someone who knows your real name. I have never asked her what it is, however. The point is that we are known. That makes what we say not just some anonymous rambling.

I didn't go to any work. I read the article you referred to, which contained your name. I figured that if you didn't want that information made public, you wouldn't have referred us to the article.

And I have posted my real name many times. Chris Smith mentioned just last night that I can't be called anonymous because everyone knows my name is John Williams. It's no secret, and you don't have to ask your friend.

[_the road to hana]

If the description doesn't fit you, then why should you get all up in the air?

This is what I see over and over here. I make a statement about a person of a specific description, and then all that comes back is "Are you talking about me?" Only if you are the like the person I described. If you aren't, then cool your jets.

You frequently misattribute quotes, so the question was justified.

Are you saying that the quote function doesn't work? If I can't find the quote, I will say "someone" said. Now, if you see yourself in that, then should I take your judgement for it?

You didn't use a quote in that post.

And, just so you know, you have at times in the past made mistakes with the quote function, and misattributed quotes.

It makes no difference. You clarified you weren't speaking to me, and brought your usual charming and disarming personality to the table in the process.

[_the road to hana]

The point is that we are known. That makes what we say not just some anonymous rambling.

Tell that to Bob.