the road to hana wrote:The flip side of that is that it's easy and convenient to blame Mitt's failure on Mormonism, when really, he just did himself in.
I believe a Mormon could be elected president. I believe Mitt Romney even could have been elected president. He just didn't live up to his potential, and instead of becoming his greatest self, became a caricature of himself.
The "Mormon" problem LDS politicians have is trying to evangelize at every opportunity. Orrin Hatch was on the radio yesterday trying to explain the beliefs of Latter-day Saints. You didn't hear John Kennedy trying to explain Catholic theology or practice at every turn when he was running for office; Mitt and others should drop the Mormon advertising and just be good people without trying to be infomercials.
I agree. Early on Romney should have made the religion speech and he should have made it in such a way as to not pander to the EVs or anyone. He should have made it inclusive and pointed our that even people who are not religious can be viable and good political leaders.
Jason Bourne wrote:Early on Romney should have made the religion speech and he should have made it in such a way as to not pander to the EVs or anyone. He should have made it inclusive and pointed our that even people who are not religious can be viable and good political leaders.
Wouldn't have helped. The only way romney could have done better was if huck wasn't in the race. Let's face it. The southern EVs voted for huck for the same reason that 90% of utah republicans voted for romney. Although the southern EVs did it at a much smaller rate.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
I think you make some valid points. It seems the church is in flux. There are many things that seemed to be taught as doctrine, things we seemed proud of as I grew up, but that are now relegated to quasi doctrine or opinion or speculation. Publically the Church seems to want to down play some of the more unique, or different teachings. But many are still in lesson manuals, talked about is SS, Relief Society or priesthood meetings and discussed by members. This then begs the question of whether it is time for the Church to make an official list or document of doctrine and belief. Certainly the Church had this in the early days with the 1835 D&C and the Articles of Faith, or what became the AoF. Yet it seems there is resistance to do this because then we are pinned down and perhaps changing doctrine will become more difficult. But yes, there is confusion among members somewhat as to what the LDS Church really teaches or believes. At times when I listen to conference, read the Ensign or read talks from the leaders in other sources I wonder if we believe anything really beyond the basics. Most of what one gets from such sources are topics about practice, how to live, obedience and so on. We are becoming overly focused on orthopraxy and little is said about doctrinal topics. One need only compare and Ensign of today to one from 25 years ago and the differences I think are stark.
this documentation exists Jason. Everything spoken by a prophet is fair game. Mormons do not seem to get that there is no official doctrine and unofficial doctrine. ITS ALL DOCTRINE, and that's the problem.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
the road to hana wrote:The flip side of that is that it's easy and convenient to blame Mitt's failure on Mormonism, when really, he just did himself in.
I believe a Mormon could be elected president. I believe Mitt Romney even could have been elected president. He just didn't live up to his potential, and instead of becoming his greatest self, became a caricature of himself.
The "Mormon" problem LDS politicians have is trying to evangelize at every opportunity. Orrin Hatch was on the radio yesterday trying to explain the beliefs of Latter-day Saints. You didn't hear John Kennedy trying to explain Catholic theology or practice at every turn when he was running for office; Mitt and others should drop the Mormon advertising and just be good people without trying to be infomercials.
I agree. Early on Romney should have made the religion speech and he should have made it in such a way as to not pander to the EVs or anyone. He should have made it inclusive and pointed our that even people who are not religious can be viable and good political leaders.
I disagree. I don't think he should have even made the speech. I think he should have brushed off all Mormonism talk. Instead, he decided to become a victim.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
I think you make some valid points. It seems the church is in flux. There are many things that seemed to be taught as doctrine, things we seemed proud of as I grew up, but that are now relegated to quasi doctrine or opinion or speculation. Publically the Church seems to want to down play some of the more unique, or different teachings. But many are still in lesson manuals, talked about is SS, Relief Society or priesthood meetings and discussed by members. This then begs the question of whether it is time for the Church to make an official list or document of doctrine and belief. Certainly the Church had this in the early days with the 1835 D&C and the Articles of Faith, or what became the AoF. Yet it seems there is resistance to do this because then we are pinned down and perhaps changing doctrine will become more difficult. But yes, there is confusion among members somewhat as to what the LDS Church really teaches or believes. At times when I listen to conference, read the Ensign or read talks from the leaders in other sources I wonder if we believe anything really beyond the basics. Most of what one gets from such sources are topics about practice, how to live, obedience and so on. We are becoming overly focused on orthopraxy and little is said about doctrinal topics. One need only compare and Ensign of today to one from 25 years ago and the differences I think are stark.
this documentation exists Jason. Everything spoken by a prophet is fair game. Mormons do not seem to get that there is no official doctrine and unofficial doctrine. ITS ALL DOCTRINE, and that's the problem.
Wrong. While I am not one to say "oh that was just his opinion" on any thing I want to squirm out there is nothing in the parameters of the development of LDS doctrine that says everything spoken is fair game. In fact early on it was pretty clear that NOT everything spoken by any LDS prophet or apostle was fair game. However, things spoken frequently and consistently that we want to now back peddle from are fair game.
If he was viable as any other candidate he would have made it to Minneapolis.
If we use your logic then Ron Paul would have received more delegates.
Romney won Minnesota so I am not sure what your point is.
the republican 2008 convention will be held in Minneapolis.
Gotchya. Sorry about that.So no candidate is viable unless they stay in all the way?
I am a little perplexed why guy smiley didn't stay in until the convention. Maybe the pricetag for the SLC mall went up another ten million and the church couldn't bankroll mitt any longer.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
It's not an all or nothing proposition. One would be foolish to think that it was only his Mormonism that did him in, but they'd also be foolish to think it had nothing to do with it. For some, his LDS membership had to be an issue, and for others, I'm sure it's his perceived lack of authenticity.
Sorry folks, but people do not think of Mormonism as "just another religion." It's not. It's got it's own place in that special category of religions that are "weirder than most." Like Scientology and JW, Mormonism is stranger than your average mainstream religion.
If it's any consolation to Mormons, however, I think they're all screwy. The details are just window dressing to the central issue with all religions, which is that they all contain irrational beliefs and are completely fabricated.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.