The unbelieving Fifth Column

[_Who Knows]

Charity. I don't care to debate the DNA question in this thread. I just want you to provide a source to where you claim southerton said he was wrong. You still haven't done that.

[_evolving]

I am sure there are people who are struggling with issues. But as long as they are struggling and are headed toward the direction of the Church and not away from it, I hope they stay with the Church. Anyone who is asking questions can still be helped to understand.

in which direction do you see the Church heading?? big picture here - do you see the church becoming a more of a Bible Based/Christian Church?? do you agree with the distance being created from the "folk doctrines" of the past leaders ??

- should not "direction of the Church" be replaced with "direction of the Christ" -and- "I hope they stay with the Church" be replaced with "I hope they stay with the Christ"

I can't speak for Will, but in my own opinion, the person who is no longer asking questions, but who thinks he/she knows it all and believes that all information points away from the Church has become an ex-mo in his/her heart. Then when they teach their "enlightenment" while still a member, they are sheep in wolves clothing and their status should be known. Not as members, but as apostates.

so it is your opinion that "the CHURCH" is more important than "the Christ"

[_Jason Bourne]

I'm all for honesty. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE CHURCH IS TRUE, I have no problem with you continuing to attend meetings on the following conditions:

Who cares what you are or are not ok with. It is not your place to decide.

Don't lie to the bishop to get a temple recommend.

So you and will who are not the persons bishop and do not know what they told the bishop are all for publicalaly exposing these so called fringe apostates. Why is it his job.

Don't hold any callings where youth or children are in the stewardship or where teaching if part of the duties.

Why not if they teach to the manual. I agree if they put their own spin in.

Don't take the sacrament, even if everone looks at you.

If investigators and un-baptized children can take the sacrament a doubter can to. And some who question do not question Jesus. They question the LDS Church's claims.

Don't speak out against any doctrine or teaching which is a part of Church doctrine or teachings inside any Church building.

Yea I agree that such a person should not he openly vocal about their issues.

If your whole purpose is to surreptitiously damage the Church, and Will can find you, you deserve to be ex-ed.

Unless Will is the persons bish or SP it is none of his damn business. or use miss un charity. You really need to change your screen name. You do not emulate the pure love of Christ.

[_Jason Bourne]

Beastie, I am sure that there are people who attend Church, pretend they are still believers, for family reasons.

But I don't know how a person who says they can't stand the "fact" that there are lies, etc. in the Church can live a lie themselves.

Do you deny that some of those who express their hatred of the Church on this board who are still attending aren't trying to sink the Church surreptitiously?

For some the issues are not black and white.Some may doubt but still participate.

[_the road to hana]

Beastie, I am sure that there are people who attend Church, pretend they are still believers, for family reasons.

But I don't know how a person who says they can't stand the "fact" that there are lies, etc. in the Church can live a lie themselves.

Do you deny that some of those who express their hatred of the Church on this board who are still attending aren't trying to sink the Church surreptitiously?

For some the issues are not black and white.Some may doubt but still participate.

Hey, even Joseph Smith participated in the local Methodist Church after being told not to join any of them. Was he an apostate?

[_the road to hana]

Hey, Rollo, as an aside I see you and I are neck and neck in post count. Maybe we'll graduate from the same godhood graduating class.

[_charity]

Charity. I don't care to debate the DNA question in this thread. I just want you to provide a source to where you claim southerton said he was wrong. You still haven't done that.

Southerton said because the predominate DNA of the Amerindians is Asian proves the Book of Mormon is wrong, and then admits that a small population of Israelites would not be detectable even 200 years later. Isn't that admitting he is wrong?

[_the road to hana]

Charity. I don't care to debate the DNA question in this thread. I just want you to provide a source to where you claim southerton said he was wrong. You still haven't done that.

Southerton said because the predominate DNA of the Amerindians is Asian proves the Book of Mormon is wrong, and then admits that a small population of Israelites would not be detectable even 200 years later. Isn't that admitting he is wrong?

I think Who Knows would prefer you'd take that to another thread.

[_charity]

I'm all for honesty. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE CHURCH IS TRUE, I have no problem with you continuing to attend meetings on the following conditions:

Who cares what you are or are not ok with. It is not your place to decide.

You are absolutey correct.

Don't lie to the bishop to get a temple recommend.

So you and will who are not the persons bishop and do not know what they told the bishop are all for publicalaly exposing these so called fringe apostates. Why is it his job.

Except for what they say here about what they believe and think. are we sure they are being as honest in person with their bishop as they are here anonymously? It is his job. And it is their condemnation if they are lying to him.

Don't hold any callings where youth or children are in the stewardship or where teaching if part of the duties.

Why not if they teach to the manual. I agree if they put their own spin in.

Yep, it's the spin I am concerned about. If they are teaching a roomful of adults, there will be those who can stop the wobble if it gets too bad.

Don't take the sacrament, even if everone looks at you.

If investigators and un-baptized children can take the sacrament a doubter can to. And some who question do not question Jesus. They question the LDS Church's claims.

Fair enough. But many here have questioned Jesus. But I think you are corret on this one.

Don't speak out against any doctrine or teaching which is a part of Church doctrine or teachings inside any Church building.

Yea I agree that such a person should not he openly vocal about their issues.

[

If your whole purpose is to surreptitiously damage the Church, and Will can find you, you deserve to be ex-ed.

Unless Will is the persons bish or SP it is none of his damn business. or use miss un charity. You really need to change your screen name. You do not emulate the pure love of Christ.

I think I am very charitable, only on behalf of those who might become victims of the sheep in wolves clothing.

I really am sympathetic for those peeople who are struggling with issues. But once they have "resolved" their problems, and the resolution has led them to the conclusion that everything about the Church is wrong--the leaders, the doctrine, the history, the members--AND that resolution wants them to "enlighten" every one around them, then I lose my sympathy. They become an enemy to the Church and God. Jesus said it was better for a millstone to be hung around their necks and then drop them in an ocean. Does that sound any less charitable than what I have said?

[_Who Knows]

Isn't that admitting he is wrong?

No.