The unbelieving Fifth Column

[_Coggins7]

I am not a judge in Israel. But I have no sympathy with apostates, either those who have formalized their state by resigning, or those who stay and try to pull down from the inside. Destroyers are destroyers. And I think they know who they are. God will judge.

You are a destroyer Charity. Do you think your presence here and on other boards is a help or a hindrance to those who question their faith? As I have told you before, you are purely telestial material until you repent. You can't repent until you leave behind your addiction to warring with the unbelievers in the most acrimonious ways.

Every word you write helps the undecideds to see the ridiculousness of the LDS position. You are therefore aiding in the destruction of testimonies. Enjoy your hobby.

And she speaks not as the scribes...

[_antishock8]

Why do I get the feeling some Believers are directly descended from inquisitors from the Spanish Inquisition? Gotta root them dern conversos out...

[_Coggins7]

I'm all for honesty. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE CHURCH IS TRUE, I have no problem with you continuing to attend meetings on the following conditions:

Who cares what you are or are not ok with. It is not your place to decide.

You are absolutey correct.

Don't lie to the bishop to get a temple recommend.

So you and will who are not the persons bishop and do not know what they told the bishop are all for publicalaly exposing these so called fringe apostates. Why is it his job.

Except for what they say here about what they believe and think. are we sure they are being as honest in person with their bishop as they are here anonymously? It is his job. And it is their condemnation if they are lying to him.

Don't hold any callings where youth or children are in the stewardship or where teaching if part of the duties.

Why not if they teach to the manual. I agree if they put their own spin in.

Yep, it's the spin I am concerned about. If they are teaching a roomful of adults, there will be those who can stop the wobble if it gets too bad.

Don't take the sacrament, even if everone looks at you.

If investigators and un-baptized children can take the sacrament a doubter can to. And some who question do not question Jesus. They question the LDS Church's claims.

Fair enough. But many here have questioned Jesus. But I think you are corret on this one.

Don't speak out against any doctrine or teaching which is a part of Church doctrine or teachings inside any Church building.

Yea I agree that such a person should not he openly vocal about their issues.

[

If your whole purpose is to surreptitiously damage the Church, and Will can find you, you deserve to be ex-ed.

Unless Will is the persons bish or SP it is none of his damn business. or use miss un charity. You really need to change your screen name. You do not emulate the pure love of Christ.

I think I am very charitable, only on behalf of those who might become victims of the sheep in wolves clothing.

I really am sympathetic for those peeople who are struggling with issues. But once they have "resolved" their problems, and the resolution has led them to the conclusion that everything about the Church is wrong--the leaders, the doctrine, the history, the members--AND that resolution wants them to "enlighten" every one around them, then I lose my sympathy. They become an enemy to the Church and God. Jesus said it was better for a millstone to be hung around their necks and then drop them in an ocean. Does that sound any less charitable than what I have said?

Jason is the one man Harmony defense committee here, and we've gotten used to his role. He apparently feels somewhat threatened, in an indirect manner, by what is observed regarding Harmony.

But, at least Jason's still in the cafeteria, while Harmony has left the premises.

[_Coggins7]

Homosexuality is an abomination because God has said so. I believe that. Happy now?"

God also said polygamy was an abomination, if one believes the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

Try to remember that what is written in books is not written by God, but by men. And men always have their own agenda.

Interesting how you insulate yourself from both revelation and logic. You are indeed, impregnable. Your primary problem, Harmony, is that you are, fundamentally, a solipsist. You are in your own world. You do not accept Joseph as a prophet after he "dropped his mantle", yet you conveniently forget 2 Samuel 2:2, 2 Samuel 5:13, 2 Samuel 2:7-9, and other scriptures mentioning plural marriage in a non-condemnatory manner, and indeed, in some cases explicitly approved of by the Lord. When this is pointed out, you then deny that the scriptures are inspired. When it is then pointed out that you cannot deny this without, essentially existing from acceptance of basic LDS principles, you cry "You're not my Bishop!"

Going around this sugar bowl has become tiresome. You retreat from one logical box canyon to another, finally ending with a personal attack on the motives of the one attempting to corner you into an intellectually honest statement about something.

That's why I say, "keep up the pose".

[_Runtu]

Runtu -- the former Church employee, with lots of inside knowledge of Church operations, now the subtle, not-too-confrontational doubter (and self-loather along the way, self-loathing because of the Church)

Harmony -- the temple recommend holder, active Saint, who publicly and anonymously challenges virtually everything the Kingdom represents except to the point of challenged Jesus Christ Himself

Who Knows, Mercury, Infymus -- less effective, but insiders nonetheless, who maintain social and spiritual connexion with the Kingdom

Beastie -- the returned missionary now turned into a raging, vulgar, fist-shaker against God himself


Would you say, rc, that these might constitute something along the lines of archtypes?

You mean like the ignorant right-winger with a thesaurus posing as an intellectual? That kind of archetype?

[_KimberlyAnn]

You mean like the ignorant right-winger with a thesaurus posing as an intellectual? That kind of archetype?

HA!

I love you, John Williams!

Kimberly Ann

[_Mister Scratch]

Runtu -- the former Church employee, with lots of inside knowledge of Church operations, now the subtle, not-too-confrontational doubter (and self-loather along the way, self-loathing because of the Church)

Harmony -- the temple recommend holder, active Saint, who publicly and anonymously challenges virtually everything the Kingdom represents except to the point of challenged Jesus Christ Himself

Who Knows, Mercury, Infymus -- less effective, but insiders nonetheless, who maintain social and spiritual connexion with the Kingdom

Beastie -- the returned missionary now turned into a raging, vulgar, fist-shaker against God himself


Would you say, rc, that these might constitute something along the lines of archtypes?

You mean like the ignorant right-winger with a thesaurus posing as an intellectual? That kind of archetype?

I don't believe it's a thesaurus. Rather, I believe it is his go-to Internet source, frontpagemag.org (or whatever it's called; it's easy enough to find, since it is pretty much the only thing he ever uses when given a 'CFR').

[_harmony]

Homosexuality is an abomination because God has said so. I believe that. Happy now?"

God also said polygamy was an abomination, if one believes the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

Try to remember that what is written in books is not written by God, but by men. And men always have their own agenda.

Interesting how you insulate yourself from both revelation and logic. You are indeed, impregnable. Your primary problem, Harmony, is that you are, fundamentally, a solipsist. You are in your own world. You do not accept Joseph as a prophet after he "dropped his mantle", yet you conveniently forget 2 Samuel 2:2, 2 Samuel 5:13, 2 Samuel 2:7-9, and other scriptures mentioning plural marriage in a non-condemnatory manner, and indeed, in some cases explicitly approved of by the Lord. When this is pointed out, you then deny that the scriptures are inspired. When it is then pointed out that you cannot deny this without, essentially existing from acceptance of basic LDS principles, you cry "You're not my Bishop!"

Going around this sugar bowl has become tiresome. You retreat from one logical box canyon to another, finally ending with a personal attack on the motives of the one attempting to corner you into an intellectually honest statement about something.

That's why I say, "keep up the pose".

You avoided the issue, Loran. Again. The Book of Mormon sounded denounces plural marriage. Calls it an abomination. There's no getting around that, no matter how any subsequent verses are interpreted. Plural marriage is condemned as an abomination. Are you saying the Book of Mormon isn't the word of God? And have you forgotten that the Bible is held as God's word with a caveat? A caveat not extended to the Book of Mormon?

Good grief, Loran. You're the poser, better than anyone else on this board ever could be.

[_Brackite]

Homosexuality is an abomination because God has said so. I believe that. Happy now?"

God also said polygamy was an abomination, if one believes the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

Try to remember that what is written in books is not written by God, but by men. And men always have their own agenda.

Try to remember to read ALL the scriptures, not just those you think supports your opinion.

Jacob 2: 30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

Clearly, if the Lord has a reason to authorize plural marriage that's fine, OTHERWISE, they will be mongamous.

I think you will probably disagree with that, but then what is your explanation of the word OTHERWISE?

Hi There Charity,

Here is Part of my Exegesis of Jacob Chapter Two and Jacob Chapter Three, particularly Jacob 2:30, from the Zion Lighthouse Message Board:

Part II:

Here is the Scriptural Passage of Jacob 2:30:


Quote:
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30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
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The Lord God intends to command His People in order to raise up seed unto Him. This is really meaning raising up seed unto the Lord. The phrase 'raise up seed unto the Lord,' is used also in 1 Nephi 7:1. Here is 1 Nephi 7:1:



Quote:
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1 And now I would that ye might know, that after my father, Lehi, had made an end of prophesying concerning his seed, it came to pass that the Lord spake unto him again, saying that it was not meet for him, Lehi, that he should take his family into the wilderness alone; but that his sons should take daughters to wife, that they might raise up seed unto the Lord in the land of promise.
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Now let’s compare this Scriptural Passage with 1 Nephi 16:7-8. Here is 1 Nephi 16:7-8:


Quote:
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7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the daughters of Ishmael to wife; and also, my brethren took of the daughters of Ishmael to wife; and also Zoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ccmmandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
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Now let's go back to Jacob 2:30. Here is Jacob 2:30:


Quote:
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30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
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Please notice that Nephi, his brethren and Zoram took just one of the daughters of Ishmael to wife. Please also notice that the word ‘command’ in Jacob 2:30 corresponds with the word 'commandments' in 1 Nephi 16:8.
And Please also notice that the phrase 'raise us seed unto the Lord' does Not mean that the Lord God wants to raise up a more numerous seed. The phrase, 'raise up seed unto the Lord' in the Book of Mormon means that the Lord God wants to raise up a righteous seed; righteous children, righteous sons and daughters, unto the Lord God. Lets go through another Scriptural Passage again in the Book of Mormon to more effectively demonstrate my Point here. In Mosiah 15:10-13, the Lord God through the Book of Mormon Prophet Abinadi defines who is the seed of the Lord God. Here is Mosiah 15:10-13:


Quote:
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Mosiah 15:10-13:
10 And now I say unto you, who shall declare his generation? Behold, I say unto you, that when his soul has been made an offering for sin he shall see his seed. And now what say ye? And who shall be his seed?
11 Behold I say unto you, that whosoever has heard the words of the prophets, yea, all the holy prophets who have prophesied concerning the coming of the Lord -- I say unto you, that all those who have hearkened unto their words, and believed that the Lord would redeem his people, and have looked forward to that day for a remission of their sins, I say unto you, that these are his seed, or they are heirs of the kingdom of God.
12 For these are they whose sins he has borne; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions. And now, are they not his seed?
13 Yea, and are not the prophets, every one that has opened his mouth to prophesy, that has not fallen into transgression, I mean all the holy prophets ever since the world began? I say unto you that they are his seed. (Bold Emphasis Mine.)
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Now Here is the Special Link to my Whole Exegesis and Commentary on Jacob Chapter Two and Jacob Chapter Three, particularly Jacob 2:30, on the Zion Lighthouse Message Board:

http://p094.ezboard.com/Reading-Jacob-C ... =415.topic

[_Runtu]

I don't believe it's a thesaurus. Rather, I believe it is his go-to Internet source, frontpagemag.org (or whatever it's called; it's easy enough to find, since it is pretty much the only thing he ever uses when given a 'CFR').

Yeah, I know. Front Page is Coggins' mother's milk.