Unrestricted Participation and Worthwhile Discussion

[_msnobody]

I don't think Don's intention here was to tick anyone off or to belittle anyone or insult their intelligence. Perhaps it is difficult to find an appropriate forum to discuss the things Don would like to discuss in a serious in depth manner.

Just a thought.

[_Jersey Girl]

People...if a higher level of discourse is what you prefer, the Celestial Forum is yours for the taking. It's been my observation that on board with multiple forums, that the majority of posters settle into one forum such as Roundtable on ZLMB.

A board is what you make of it.

If you wish for more scholarly debate and discussion....start a thread in the Celestial Forum.

Shades has this board set up so that there is something for everyone without someone else imposing their idea of what constitutes substance on the community at large.

I actually read all of the threads in Celestial. I don't contribute 'cause I don't want to feel any more of a dummy than I already do on this board. I don't like telestial too much 'cause it's mostly nonsense and personal swipes. I used to look quite a bit and try to refrain from even peeking lately.

Ya know...your post gave me an idea, Moniker. I looked at the views count in the Celestial and it's not much different than the Terrestrial. I think that people are participating in the form of lurking though not actively posting. I read there too.

[_Gazelam]

Id just like to call everyones attention to the Spalding/Rigdon thread in the Celestial Kingdom. That thread consisted of some upper crust conversation and was pretty much devoid of the nonsence type stuff.


If John Blixa and Don want an upper crust conversation on points of Mormon History that interest them, then open up a thread !

[_moksha]

For Mormons to discuss ideas among themselves, the place that I think can't be beat is the LDS forum at Beliefnet. It offers the requirement of polite and civil dialog in an otherwise uncensorious manner. Here Mormons can find themselves insulted every few minutes. At MAD the right to express yourself is fettered by the capricious actions of overly unctuous moderators. So what's a Mormon who is somewhat different to do? Well, go back to the first sentence of this post.

[_antishock8]

I'm a huge fan of free speech as long as you don't upset me.

I see what you're attempting to do. It's a nice thought, but who's to say that you're concept of communicating is any better than what's going on now? Your sensibilities, and what you think you need from an online exchange may very well be incompatible with the majority of posters who contribute to this forum. Or it may not. However, there IS a reason why the Celestial forum gets less attention than this one: People love a good gladiator movie.

That being said, 25 people were just blown up in Pakistan by Islamists. A little perspective is nice, non? Oui? Oui oui.

So if you see a sexy young woman walking down the street, in provocative clothing, like almost nothing, and you feel the "urge" to express your "manhood", because it's "what I really feel", you "express" it?

Define the difference.

Well, one is an apple, and the other an orange.

[_antishock8]

I've long wished that I could find the kind of discussions of Mormon history I would like to participate in here.

I agree whole heartedly. I have been on these boards for about 5 years now. There has yet to be a board where people regularly have the kind of discussion of Mormonism that I am interested in.

John

You teh funneh. Methinks if thou has searched five longeth years for a converstation worthy of thy attentioneth, then though wilst searcheth another fiveth and still no worthy discussioneth to thee will be made.

[_Blixa]

*sigh*

Okay. From a leadership training I particpated in: Be the change you'd see in the world. Post what you want to see discussed. Complaining about the subject of someone else's thread, while not posting what you'd like to discuss, is counterproductive at best, and undermining at worst. So start some threads about the subjects you'd like to discuss, and don't wait for someone else to do the heavy lifting.

As an aside, the kind of discussion you're talking about would exclude 90% of the posters here. Is that the aim? That our comments would be ignored or considered "noise"? That we'd have nothing to offer? Because that's what I'm seeing.

Harmony, I don't think anyone is complaining about most of the posters here, or insisting on only one level of discourse. I'm talking about those who don't/can't discuss whose only and stated mission is to "correct" "anti-mormon" lies or conduct lengthy and bitter campaigns against the characters and credentials of other posters or fling nonsensical apologetic spin. That's the "noise."

And for me, some of this isn't just an "intellectual" problem. It frankly gets me down to read some of the vile and vicious, condescending and self-righteous judgementalism deployed by those who feel they are on the side of God and I am on the side of Satan. I've read things here that are absolutely devoid of human decency. Talk about a "dark feeling!" Talk about a "stupor of thought!" What kind of human being repeatedly tells people that they'll know better after they're dead?

As I said before, one strategy is just to avoid reading those posters. And perhaps another one would be to make a very blunt rejoinder when someone attempts to make a secular discussion of religion into a battle of the saints. But any response only gives ammunition to someone who wants to see all response as confirming their own sense of persecuted saintliness. There is no reply one can make to those whose ultimate goal is not to continue discussion but shut it down.

[_JAK]

I've long wished that I could find the kind of discussions of Mormon history I would like to participate in here.

I agree whole heartedly. I have been on these boards for about 5 years now. There has yet to be a board where people regularly have the kind of discussion of Mormonism that I am interested in.

John

“Mormonism” is but one of more than a thousand groups or organized denominations purporting to spread Christianity.

My question, John and others who express what you do, is just why the fixation on merely one of these many groups which have differing interpretations and doctrines on the same religion?

Such a view would seem to obscure the larger perspective of various Christian doctrines and dogmas which are all a part of the evolution of Christianity.

Why, then, such an exclusive focus on a group which has such a short history in Christianity?

There was no such thing as “Mormonism” prior to the mid 1800s. It’s a new-comer in the various splits, divisions, and start-ups which operate under the larger umbrella of Christianity.

I understand the title of this board appears to be focused on a single denomination. However, from the individual contributions to discussion, it also appears that there is a considerably wider perspective in the total of those who have participated.

JAK

[_beastie]

This is the nature of internet boards. I think you're yearning for something that generally doesn't exist.

It is extremely difficult to moderate an internet board even just for baseline civility. I know, I did it over on ZLMB, and we weren't also moderating for substance. Substance, aside from the most obvious examples of "noise", is a subjective determination, likely heavily subject to personal bias. To moderate a board for BOTH civility and substance would be a full time job, and an annoying one. The moderators would be constantly challenged and argued with, which makes the job extremely undesirable and difficult to fill.

Here's one example of how subjective the evaluation of "substance" would be- moksha got booted from MAD, If I recall correctly, for lack of substance. His posts were often brief and usually humorous. Yet many of us saw real substance behind most of those brief, funny remarks. But obviously the moderators did not.

I think a personal blog is more what you're looking for. Gadianton used to participate on a high-brow blog by a Mormon intellectual who used to post over on ZLMB occasionally. I enjoyed his stuff, too, because he was a genuine liberal Mormon in my view. I used to read the blog now and then but didn't participate because of the heavy philosophical bent, which is not my strength. I just can't remember the fellow's name at the moment. Maybe Gad is reading and will remember, or you can PM him.

Personally, I'd really like to see the ignore function on this board. I think it would help diminish the positive reinforcement (albeit in terms of negative attention, but still attention) that some particularly annoying posters receive. I know we're supposed to just ignore them of our own will, but in practice, that is very difficult to do when they're targeting you in particular.

[_Blixa]

Oh yes, in large part you are right, beastie. Nevertheless, perhaps by addressing problems we can come up with a partial solution or solutions, if not a complete solution. I know I haven't found a satisfying approach yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible...