Unrestricted Participation and Worthwhile Discussion

[_Ren]

I've seen boards where users have the option to view threads either way - just 'linear' or 'threaded view', where you can see the list of replies and jump straight to the responses from the people they want to read.

...that (should) keep everyone (kinda) happy? Or at least help? Donno if the board software has the option though...

[_skippy the dead]

The only way to raise the quality of discussions is for people who wish to do so, to begin those types of discussions and see them through.

Ignore the posters whom you feel are less equipped and go on about your way. I regularly ignore posts by certain posters quite simply because I don't wish to get sucked into the vortex of opposing them, though I do it sometimes.

Ideally you are correct. The problem I've seen (and it seems particularly pronounced as of late) is that an otherwise interesting thread degenerates rapidly into a mud flinging contest after a few "choice" comments, never to return back on track. After a thread devolves in such a way, recovery tends to be impossible. Ignoring posters doesn't do the trick - the thread can be destroyed easily by just a few.

Not in the Celestial Forum, skippy.

True, but I think at times the Celestial Forum can be too restrictive. It has been cast as the "upper-crust" forum, and sometimes a good discussion involves some rough-and-tumble give and take. It just doesn't need to involve posters calling each other childish names and derailing threads with personal attacks. These kinds of discussions should be able to take place here in this forum. But it's apparently too much to ask.

[_DonBradley]

Beastie,

The ignore function would be an excellent addition.

Don

[_DonBradley]

I'm saying this one last time, the Celestial Forum is there to be used by anyone who wishes to use it. Complaining that it isn't used enough when one isn't using it themselves doesn't make sense to me at all. As I wrote earlier, I looked at the views count in the Celestial and they are comparable to here in the Terrestrial. What that says to me is that people are reading there. Perhaps the lurkers would like to join in on a variety of topics ? I have no real way of knowing.

I want to say too, that for the first time ever, I was disappointed by Don's OP here. I understand wanting a higher level of discourse however, the key to making it happen...is to make it happen.

Criticizing the nature of postings here in the Terrestrial (where most posters have settled in) is not the way to raise the quality of discussions. This is a community. Some folks are here to learn, to teach, to think and to play. That is the nature of boards like this and probably always will be.

The only way to raise the quality of discussions is for people who wish to do so, to begin those types of discussions and see them through.

Jersey Girl,

I would like to see the Celestial Forum used more, which is why I brought the degree of its use, or disuse, brought up. I have participated in the Celestial Forum, posted on using it more, and suggested to other posters, off-list, that they post there so that their threads will remain more substantive. The response I've gotten is that posting one's thread in the Celestial Forum is a good way to kill it before its born. People don't want to post and receive no responses. And there is so little activity in the Celestial Forum that it's easy to just habitually check the Terrestrial while ignoring the Celestial. Having already thought this through for a good while, having suggested and tried to drum up greater participation in the Celestial Forum, and to no avail, I've become interested instead in eliminating the worst of the forum that does get used--the Terrestrial. I'm not suggesting that the Terrestrial should be held to the standards of the Celestial, but, rather, that the Terrestrial, as the forum for "normal" discussion, should be a basically civil place, devoid of such things as ballads intended to antagonize other posters. Surely this sort of thing, and much like it, should be consigned to a lower-end forum, and persistent posters of this sort of tripe consigned there as well.

While you make out that I'm trying to make the Terrestrial Forum into the Celestial; that I've ignored the obvious option of increased participation in the Celestial Forum, and that I've denigrated a beloved online home for the masses, this is all simply false, as a consideration of my past posting and a careful reading of my OP and this message will show.

Ignore the posters whom you feel are less equipped and go on about your way. I regularly ignore posts by certain posters quite simply because I don't wish to get sucked into the vortex of opposing them, though I do it sometimes.

If you view your time here as a waste of your resources, then limit your time here.

This never occurred to me, Jers.

Don Bradley, you know how much I like you and always have, but I have to say that your criticizing the community or the style of moderation instead of limiting your own time here really bugs the living hell out of me. If you see this as a non-worthwhile expenditure of your time, then the simple answer is to do something else that you feel is more worthy and productive.

Consider it done. What bugs the living hell, Jersey, out of me (to overstate considerably ;-) ) is to have myself misrepresented by someone who should know me better for ostensibly criticizing "the community," or having it suggested that the moderation (or lack thereof) is above criticism.

Your OP and some of your comments were an insult to the community that welcomes you.

Make no mistake, Jersey, that you are misrepresenting and insulting me and burning a bridge.

A friend might know better.

What you fail to recognize is that you post here with us and while you perhaps feel disgusted with yourself for the amount of time you put in here, it's not okay to lay that disgust on the community at large.

Thanks for the psychoanalysis. The specific prompt for this thread was not my disgust at wasting my time (which was the prompt, however, for mine other thread), but, rather, the continued juvenile antics of Coggins7, directly aimed at baiting and insulting other posters. If this is your idea of basically civil discussion that should characterize, not the the upper-end forum, but the place for normal interaction, then the worst insult offered by your post is against yourself.

I did nothing in the thread to attack you, Jersey, or some larger home "community" of which you are part. But I have been insulted in response, and I take very poorly to it.

I have, as you know, always like you. Hell, for several years! But I'm at least as put off, and I think more rightly so, by your jibes at me, as you are by my expression of the view that the Terrestrial Forum ought to exclude flaming ****. I will probably get over it, for whatever that's worth. But, like you, I'm not feeling especially fond of my old online friend at the moment.

In the interest of not further exacerbating the mutual irritation, I am going to recuse myself ;-) from further discussion with you on this thread. I've taken retaliatory shots at you, and would not be surprised if some are sent back. I will try to resist the temptation to read them.

Ciao,

Don

[_DonBradley]

Ideally you are correct. The problem I've seen (and it seems particularly pronounced as of late) is that an otherwise interesting thread degenerates rapidly into a mud flinging contest after a few "choice" comments, never to return back on track. After a thread devolves in such a way, recovery tends to be impossible. Ignoring posters doesn't do the trick - the thread can be destroyed easily by just a few.

Bingo, Skippy! Someone understands!

I'm not saying the majority, or even a very significant minority, of posters are consistent posters of screed and garbage. But there don't need to be very many of these folks to derail otherwise civil and promising threads.

Jersey and JAK have pointed out that there's a Celestial Forum for uppercrust discussion. I don't disagree. I'm just pointing out that there's a Telestial Forum for lowercrust discussion, and that it ought to be banished there, along with those who insist on posting almost nothing but such junk. Why should the forum for regular discussion be a place for utter vacuousness, baiting, and vitriol?

Also, while I'm not a believing LDS, but I dislike, greatly, to have to encounter temple content on this forum. I am offended on behalf of those who do believe. This, and Coggins7's lampoon ditties, and the like, are intended solely to deride and offend. That is not "discussion" in any normal or decent sense at all. It doesn't belong in a forum dedicated to such discussion.

I would hope this would be self-evident, and regret very much to see that it need be pointed out, much less argued.

Thanks for chiming in. :-)

Don

[_Ren]

Maybe moderation could just be a bit more strict about keeping threads on topic? That maybe wouldn't require TOO much more moderation...
What I see quite a bit is not so much threads getting unnessesarily nasty, but threads getting nasty in a way that has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic!

Also, I think there should be some form of 'penalty' for disobeying forum rules. Right now, somebody does something Telestial in the Terrestial say. The mods say 'Naughty naughty', and they move or split threads as necessary. But there is no penalty to the person who caused that moderation work to be required. Therefore, what incentive is there to actually learn the rules of that kingdom? I far as I can see, there is none. The person can continually break the rules of that kingdom, and the mods will have to continually clean up after them, time after time.

I'm not talking about perm-bans. I can see that would go against the free-speech nature of the board. But at least a short temp ban maybe? Or something. SOME possible penalty for continuously breaking the rules of the particular room being posted in. So that the rules PROPERLY sink in...
NOTE: I'm not suggesting anybody get a 'penalty' for just the literal content of their post. I'm suggesting potential penalties for people who repeatedly post content in the wrong place. (In my opinion, VAST amounts of the terrestial kingdom are actually telestial in nature. But it'd be too much work for the mods to sort it all out - I respect that. So - just get people to follow the rules 'properly', and then things will sort themselves out...)

[_KimberlyAnn]

Ren, I think you're onto something. I have said before, and I still think it's a good idea, that folks who repeatedly post material in the wrong place should be temporarily consigned to the forum which best suits the nature of their posts.

Posters who repeatedly make off-topic remarks and posts in the wrong forum could be allowed to only post in the O/T forum. Likewise, posters who repeatedly launch personal attacks or use inappropriate language could be restrained, if only for a probationary period, in the Telestial forum.

I dunno. Just an idea.

KA

[_Ren]

Posters who repeatedly make off-topic remarks and posts in the wrong forum could be allowed to only post in the O/T forum. Likewise, posters who repeatedly launch personal attacks or use inappropriate language could be restrained, if only for a probationary period, in the Telestial forum.

Ahh yes - actually, that's a better idea. Rather than a full-on perm ban, simply limit access to certain rooms (or to one room perhaps) for some amount of time.
...yeah - that'd probably be even better.

Just 'some' form of penalty. Because otherwise, there is simply no incentive to keep the rules, and therefore the mods are faced with a daunting task.

[_KimberlyAnn]

I'd also like to see something to dissuade posters from completely taking over and derailing a thread. It only takes two people to ruin a perfectly interesting exchange.

I don't mind a temporary diversion, a couple of remarks or so, but when threads are entirely shifted and the OP is rendered irrelevant to the conversation, then that's a problem.

Posters who continually block or divert conversations should also be restricted in some way.

Also, a max number of posts per day imposed on overly-eager posters might be a good idea, too.

KA

[Guest]

There are posters on this thread that are talking about "off-topic remarks" (let's just call it humor, shall we?) that make plenty of them. All the time. I've even witnessed the OP make one-liners. Didn't bother me.

I put up with what I do not enjoy reading and skim over them. No doubt many, many, many people jump over my posts. I have created threads where people come in and derail. I have had Coggins lampoon me in song in this forum (he did the same to Beastie), and have had plenty of personal attacks thrown my way. I've attacked posters in this kingdom (although I try not to), and figure it's just part of being in a community of people that are individuals.

I think we all act poorly at times. What to do? What to do? Just control your own behavior -- if someone does something you don't like call them out on it.

I see no other way to leave it a free speech board. The penalties that Ren suggested strike me as a big pain in the ass. It would be subjective and the Mods would have to spend time making all happy -- impossible. Make yourselves happy. If you need a break -- take it. If you don't enjoy a thread -- start a new one. If you don't like what is being said -- don't look. If you have an issue -- take it on. If the thread is being derailed PM a mod and ask them to split it. I do that all the time. There are some threads I just don't click on because of who started them -- I know what I'll find.

I don't like the terms "vacuous" and "stupid" (in the last thread that was almost identical to this OP) being used in regards to the members of this community. I am often stunned at the simplicity of some arguments and how they appeal to me -- perhaps 'cause I'm a simple type of gal.

It's fairly simple. Control your own behavior. If someone does something you have an issue with take it on with that person, or not - yet, don't blame the board for your own behavior -- essentially how you respond is UP TO YOU. I get riled more than I'd like to. I walk away or engage -- essentially it's up to me! I have issues with what is said here -- OFTEN -- how I respond is not left up to the other board participants.