How to Stay in the LDS Church after Losing Your Faith

[_Trinity]

We have talked about this extensively on other boards that have a higher concentration of NOM/Fringe participants.

Having been in the church but not of the church for roughly five years before exiting completely, I see this idea of inoculation as a temporary stopgap, not a permanent solution. The danger is that you have to compromise your integrity to some extent to do this. I understand there are many variables involved and each situation is unique. There was a reason why I was actively involved as an unbeliever...my spouse, my family and my cultural ties as I am in Utah. But there is also no adequate vocabulary to explain my mental/spiritual/emotional relief in being able to walk away instead of continuing to get splinters from straddling the fence.

My current thought on this is if you do not believe in the church, don't support it by going. There are many OTHER things in life you could be positively doing instead of diddling your time in an institution that is so time and energy demanding. Stand for something and walk away. You'll feel better about yourself for doing so.

What works for you does not word for others. And as in my case there is a lot I still believe and have faith about. Also, personally I enjoy the sociality it brings in my life and it is a great way for me to serve some part of humanity. Sure I could serve other places and in fact plan to so some community service in another venue when I am done with another thing in the Church.

Trinty, I think your comments are fine but for your last paragraph. You have no way to know that someone will feel better by walking away. Some do, you did, some may, some may not. Why is it so many who have walked feel that they have some nobility in their life that those who work through things in a different way don't. This really borders on the same view point that someone like Crockett holds. Get the hell out if you can't swallow it all and be an what they think are TBMs

I'm sorry I didn't put enough disclaimers in the opening paragraph for you. I understand that people are different, and every situation is unique.

I also understand that the vast majority of those who leave the Mormon faith leave religion altogether. We have had plenty of speculation why that is the case over the years, but nevertheless I am going to approximate that 95% of the postmormons I know are agnostic or atheistic. While that position gives a little bit of room to maneuver in the church (if you don't believe there is a God, you can accept the church as a country club of sorts, and you have a better vantaged position to understand why people are believing what they do), it still means you are not following your heart. Or your mind. It takes some fancy mental gymnastics to sit and listen to people ponder about God's great divine Mormon channels when you don't believe in Mormonism, much less believe in a God.

I probably should add that I am a personality type that refuses to be marginalized. I don't lurk on the back pew. My thoughts are good and I will share them and I will speak up for truth. Even when I was an agnostic in the church I taught lessons and held leadership positions. I did, however, expend an enormous amount of mental energy trying to stay true to myself while not teaching something contradictory to the church teachings. It was exhausting and ultimately not worth the effort to me. I also understand that not everyone is like me and some people may be happy as peaches to sit quiet on the bench and sleep through sacrament meeting every Sunday for forty years. I have a hard time understanding people like that as I am quite passionate about what I believe, but I do understand they exist.

[_Runtu]

??? So, he's saying that it's a good idea to have your children drink poison, so that you can have a wonderful laboratory on the workings of antidotes?

I will never, EVER understand that mindset. I could live to be a million years old and still never understand that mindset. I mean, c'mon: Why not just skip the middleman and not have them drink any poison in the first place?

A little help, please?

I do not begrudge anyone's choices regarding the church. But I'm with you. I will never understand how people can justify staying in a church that they have to consistently undermine in order to protect their children. My father said to me once that my problem was that I took the church too seriously. "You'll be fine if you just take what you agree with and don't take the rest seriously at all, like I did." I told him that there is no guarantee that my children wouldn't take it as seriously as I had, no matter what my parental attitude was.

[_Dr. Shades]

My father said to me once that my problem was that I took the church too seriously. "You'll be fine if you just take what you agree with and don't take the rest seriously at all, like I did."

Wow, how noble. Just like the German population during World War II.

[_Trinity]

This past thread on FLAK highlights some of the benefits and liabilities of the inoculation theory:

Mormon Matters podcast #15

[_truth dancer]

Have to say I have a difficult time with this idea...

Participate in church, let your children learn that the LDS church is the one and only true church, that the prophet speaks to Christ, that Joseph Smith was a fabulous noble man, that the Book of Mormon is true, that the Bible is the word of God, that woman are marginalized, that obedience is everything, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc., then come home and tell them it is not true?

It doesn't make sense to me.

~dancer~

[_BishopRic]

I actually feel great sympathy for folks who are in situations where they feel the safe thing to do is stay in church. That's got to be really tough.

As do I.

The thing is, for those of us BIC members, when we lose our belief, we have nothing else immediately to hang our moral hats on. We don't know what is right or wrong, as the church was very good at telling us everything to do and what to think. When that is gone, it takes a while to re-build a foundation that works for us.

For me, I had a few years that I thought all I had left was my family. And I thought I had to do whatever it took to save that. So I went to church for them/us. But I soon learned that I was rotting away spiritually -- by that, my own spirit was dying from living a lifestyle I didn't believe in, and it took its toll.

I finally had to live my truth, and it was an amazing breath of fresh air. Yes, it required a divorce, but after the healing, I am closer to ALL my kids than ever, and they even say they see such a difference now that I don't have to live a lie.

But the road to get there is challenging, to say the least; and I don't fault anybody taking a few detours along the way figuring out the best path for them.

[_Moniker]

Thanks for the link, Jason. I think John is doing a great job "from within," helping members understand the diversity of beliefs within the church. The LDS Church is indeed a unique culture, and when a person loses the black and white beliefs they once had, it is a challenge to know the right thing to do for them, and for their family. Having a resource to help one through the process is a great support for many. What works for one person doesn't work for everybody...and John helps us understand that.

The black and white beliefs (TRUTH) was something that was stunning to me when I first stumbled onto MAD and saw so many ex-Mos that had switched sides so radically.

I marvel at those that stay within the Church to keep their family intact all the while tempering and not expressing their true thoughts on the matter. That is truly a remarkable sacrifice for their families. For anyone else to come behind them and degrade them for staying, or trying to push them out, is horrendous!

[_Jason Bourne]

Here are some principles that Dehlin has brought to the table that I have tried to teach my kids, and have incorporated in my own life:

De-program as necessary

The church is actually a wonderful laboratory to help practice, and eventually instill this teaching within them.

??? So, he's saying that it's a good idea to have your children drink poison, so that you can have a wonderful laboratory on the workings of antidotes?

I will never, EVER understand that mindset. I could live to be a million years old and still never understand that mindset. I mean, c'mon: Why not just skip the middleman and not have them drink any poison in the first place?

A little help, please?

THing is he does not view it as poison. He thinks there is much good. Listen to the podcast. what in your life is perfect? Do you agree with everything the US Government does? Is there stuff you teach your kids about that it does that are not good? If you think there are bad things in the USA why don't you leave it too? Is the LDS Church and religion the only thing that is black and white in your life?

[_Jason Bourne]

??? So, he's saying that it's a good idea to have your children drink poison, so that you can have a wonderful laboratory on the workings of antidotes?

I will never, EVER understand that mindset. I could live to be a million years old and still never understand that mindset. I mean, c'mon: Why not just skip the middleman and not have them drink any poison in the first place?

A little help, please?

I do not begrudge anyone's choices regarding the church. But I'm with you. I will never understand how people can justify staying in a church that they have to consistently undermine in order to protect their children. My father said to me once that my problem was that I took the church too seriously. "You'll be fine if you just take what you agree with and don't take the rest seriously at all, like I did." I told him that there is no guarantee that my children wouldn't take it as seriously as I had, no matter what my parental attitude was.

Don't your kids participate fully as we write this? If you believe what you just wrote the next question is why. Runtu, I would especially like you to listen to this podcast.

[_Yoda]

I guess my feeling on a lot of this is, I don't see a problem with building an individual faith that works for you.

Yes, I grew up in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I have relatives who were pioneers. It is part of my heritage, and it is the culture I grew up in.

But through it all, I managed to develop my own unique moral compass.

I do believe there is a God. I do believe that there is life after death. I believe that Jesus Christ did exist, and that he died for us.

Do I have problems with some of the tenets of the LDS Church? Yes, I do.

And I don't prescribe to the notion that we have the one and only true Church. I think that goodness and spirituality can be found in many churches.

However, I choose to worship Jesus Christ, and it is easiest for me to worship him in the Church I grew up in. That is what is comfortable for me.

What particularly struck me about Dehlin's essay was when he was talking about focusing on the people, not necessarily the doctrine.

This paragraph struck a chord with me, in particular:

At church, focus on the people, and not on the "hard to swallow" teachings or doctrines. Get to know people, and find out what makes them tick, why they think the things they do. Even the most dogmatically obnoxious members can actually become wonderful friends if you take the time to get to know them on a personal basis. Work to uncover what's behind the posturing.

This might not work for all of you -- especially those who generally don't like people. But because I'm a people person, this really works for me.

As did this:

Detach your care, concern, and self-esteem from the judgment of other church members. To become a buffet Mormon, it means that you must not care what orthodox people think about you from a religious perspective. Religion is ultimately a private thing. It's nobody's business but your own. Don't get defensive when people talk badly about you and judge you. Don't become paranoid at what they are saying. Get to the point where you love folks, but seriously don't give a hoot about what they think of you in terms of how you display your religiosity. One thing's for certain -- they are most likely hiding their weaknesses, and putting their best foot forward. They have their weaknesses, too. It's only a matter of what they allow you to see or think. In the end, most people just try their best in private (often falling short), and in public, they put on as good a face as they can.