How to Stay in the LDS Church after Losing Your Faith

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:45 am

Hope LDS and ex-LDS don't mind me chiming in here. Actually I don't care who minds. ;-)

What crocket and Coggins have to say about cafeteria Mormons is irrelevant unless the topic is cafeteria Mormonism. Jason, harmony, Liz and others who remain in the church for various reasons are grown ass adults. (Am I allowed to say grown ass? Do I have to edit my own self?). They are free to come and go as they see fit. Believe or not as they see fit. Think what they will as they see fit.

And it's nobody's damn business but their own.

When I see posters like crocket or Coggins, or even Porter lambasting Jason, harmony, Liz and others for their perceived failure to tow the party line...I'm thinking these are posters who aren't able to argue issues and instead of considering the ideas/issues/topics/viewpoints presented to them in an intelligent way, they simply spit on the people who express them.

Give me a thousand cafeteria Mormons who are able to think and decide over a handful of linear thinkers who create boxes to stuff people in so they can attack them for using their brains or regurgitate "truths" that someone else dreamed up for them...any day of the week.

2 cents,
Jersey Girl

Post by **_Blixa** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:17 am

Jersey Girl wrote:Hope LDS and ex-LDS don't mind me chiming in here. Actually I don't care who minds. ;-)

What crocket and Coggins have to say about cafeteria Mormons is irrelevant unless the topic is cafeteria Mormonism. Jason, harmony, Liz and others who remain in the church for various reasons are grown ass adults. (Am I allowed to say grown ass? Do I have to edit my own self?). They are free to come and go as they see fit. Believe or not as they see fit. Think what they will as they see fit.

And it's nobody's damn business but their own.

When I see posters like crocket or Coggins, or even Porter lambasting Jason, harmony, Liz and others for their perceived failure to tow the party line...I'm thinking these are posters who aren't able to argue issues and instead of considering the ideas/issues/topics/viewpoints presented to them in an intelligent way, they simply spit on the people who express them.

Give me a thousand cafeteria Mormons who are able to think and decide over a handful of linear thinkers who create boxes to stuff people in so they can attack them for using their brains or regurgitate "truths" that someone else dreamed up for them...any day of the week.

2 cents,
Jersey Girl

YES!!!

Post by **_Moniker** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:26 am

Blixa wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:Hope LDS and ex-LDS don't mind me chiming in here. Actually I don't care who minds. ;-)

What crocket and Coggins have to say about cafeteria Mormons is irrelevant unless the topic is cafeteria Mormonism. Jason, harmony, Liz and others who remain in the church for various reasons are grown ass adults. (Am I allowed to say grown ass? Do I have to edit my own self?). They are free to come and go as they see fit. Believe or not as they see fit. Think what they will as they see fit.

And it's nobody's damn business but their own.

When I see posters like crocket or Coggins, or even Porter lambasting Jason, harmony, Liz and others for their perceived failure to tow the party line...I'm thinking these are posters who aren't able to argue issues and instead of considering the ideas/issues/topics/viewpoints presented to them in an intelligent way, they simply spit on the people who express them.

Give me a thousand cafeteria Mormons who are able to think and decide over a handful of linear thinkers who create boxes to stuff people in so they can attack them for using their brains or regurgitate "truths" that someone else dreamed up for them...any day of the week.

2 cents,
Jersey Girl

YES!!!

I agree with you, Jersey Girl. Ditto to Blixa.

Yet, I do regurgitate -- as I have no novel thoughts. Sorry! :)

Yet, I try not to spit too often. I find that when I spit I just dribble all over myself! Uck!

Everyone has what works for them -- I find that I admire Liz and Jason much more than those that attempt to ridicule them.

Post by **_Tori** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:53 am

liz3564 wrote:

Here is a link to the essay, or written portion of the podcast. It looks like it's pretty close to a transcript for those who can't listen at the moment. It's a great read!

This is a great Valentine's Day present, Jason! :)

http://mormonstories.org/HowToStay.html ... _necessary

I've listened to this podcast before and think it is excellent! I struggle also as I try to figure out how to best raise my children after my change in beliefs. It's difficult to do when I once felt like I had the perfect compass to help guide me through parenthood.

This article on Post Mormon has been so helpful to me. Often, when I am discouraged about motherhood as an EXMO, living in Happy Valley, I click on to this...http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.p ... er_mother/

I think she expresses things well, she echos my sentiments and reminds us that the best thing we can give our children is to help them love themselves. Live with integrity and honesty and they will live well.

Post by **_Trevor** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:55 am

Dr. Shades wrote:Wow, how noble. Just like the German population during World War II.

Yeah, what with all the baby eating in the temples and so forth. It's truly the moral equivalent. Great insight.

Post by **_Dr. Shades** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:45 am

Trevor wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:Wow, how noble. Just like the German population during World War II.

Yeah, what with all the baby eating in the temples and so forth. It's truly the moral equivalent. Great insight.

??? I never implied that Mormons or WWII-era Germans ate babies, whether in the temple or otherwise. I was responding to Runtu, who reported his father's methodology:

Runtu wrote:My father said to me once that my problem was that I took the church too seriously. "You'll be fine if you just take what you agree with and don't take the rest seriously at all, like I did."

My point was that this sounds exactly like the mindset that the civilian population of Germany likely adopted toward their overseers: "Just take what you agree with and don't take the rest seriously at all." The reason I made the correlation is as an object lesson of just non-noble that mindset is. Rather than holding the leadership accountable, the underlings give them tacit license for excess.

Post by **_antishock8** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:53 am

Post by **_Dr. Shades** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:12 am

Antishock8:

YEAH, WE GET IT!!

Post by **_Trevor** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:13 am

Dr. Shades wrote:??? I never implied that Mormons or WWII-era Germans ate babies, whether in the temple or otherwise. I was responding to Runtu, who reported his father's methodology:

Ahem. Humor? Hyperbole?

Runtu wrote:My point was that this sounds exactly like the mindset that the civilian population of Germany likely adopted toward their overseers: "Just take what you agree with and don't take the rest seriously at all." The reason I made the correlation is as an object lesson of just non-noble that mindset is. Rather than holding the leadership accountable, the underlings give them tacit license for excess.

It makes a great deal of difference precisely what it is one is picking amongst. There is a huge difference between picking the best out of a relatively decent lifestyle (albeit one with significant flaws) and ignoring monstrous inhumanity on an arguably unprecedented scale. If you are honestly comparing the excesses of the Mormon leadership with the excesses of the Third Reich, one might say you need to reconsider seriously your sense of scale.

Post by **_Dr. Shades** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:18 am

Trevor wrote:If you are honestly comparing the excesses of the Mormon leadership with the excesses of the Third Reich, one might say you need to reconsider seriously your sense of scale.

No, I'm not comparing the excesses of the two groups (although I had a nagging suspicion that people would assume I had done so). I was drawing attention to the flaws of the "give them a free pass" mentality by drawing attention to how badly it had backfired in at least one instance.