Does DCP Require Biased Moderation?

[_BishopRic]

But what's interesting is that the Charitys of the church seem to believe it is due to sin that we leave! It fits their schema that if they observe us "sinning" (from the Mormon perspective), that is evidence that we have lost the spirit, and that Trump's all other reasons.

[_beastie]

The funny thing is that there's plenty of LDS who STAY in the church who are sinning. So the idea that you have to leave the church to sin is plain nonsense anyway.

[_the road to hana]

In a fairly-limited sample set, admittedly, I haven't come across any ex-LDS whose departure from the faith was not rooted in and precipitated by historical/doctrinal issues. Perhaps those are merely the types who frequent Mormon-themed MB's.

CKS

.

That makes sense to me. What person is going to come on a message board and say, "I left the Church because I cheated on my spouse and got booted." or "I really wanted to spend thousands of dollars in having my personality adjusted, and I couldn't do that and pay tithing at the same time, and besides most of my "adjustments" were done on weekend, and I couldn't go to church anyway."

Just some puppet hired by you.

The fact that you trivialize other people's very difficult journeys is telling.

By that flawed logic, anyone who converts to Mormonism from another church left that other church not because they had difficulties with doctrine or practice, but because they sinned, and couldn't deal with it, so moved on.

[_charity]

Could you please give us even one statement/quote from a disbeliever who says she/he was looking for (and found) excuses to leave the church which resulted in her/his disbelief.

Of the many, many disbelievers I have encountered I have never come across even one who would claim the reason for their disbelief is because they were looking for an excuse to leave.

Thanks,

~dancer~

You misunderstand. What I think happens is the person choses to no longer believe. Some one thing tips the scale. Thisis what happens to people. We have some internal emotional event and then look for an answer to why we feel the way we do. This is the way panic attacks lead to major problems, such as agoraphobia. A person has an internal event, a burst of epinephrine, a random physical event. This causes feelings of anxiety. The person wants to explain to himself why he is so upset. He looks around to find something that is causing him to feel anxious. He then says to himself, "Oh, I must be worried about having to give that presentation at work on Monday. If I am so stressed out about it I probably won't do a good job." Then he doesn't. The next time he is supposed to make a presentation, he gets nervous (he doesn't need the random ephinephine this time, he produces it on his own, and it becomes a repeating cycle.

I think this is what happens. A person has questions, which eventually tip the scales. When the balance shifts to "the church must not be what is says it is, then the person looks to confirm that thought, and the lens he sees things through does not suddenly become clear, as critics would have us believe, but the tint changes, and now everything looks bad.

[_charity]

That makes sense to me. What person is going to come on a message board and say, "I left the Church because I cheated on my spouse and got booted." or "I really wanted to spend thousands of dollars in having my personality adjusted, and I couldn't do that and pay tithing at the same time, and besides most of my "adjustments" were done on weekend, and I couldn't go to church anyway."

I agree, message board converations around doctinal historical,etc. issues will find a better recpetion.

Funny how you phrased that to insinuate posters are not telling the truth about why they leave.

That isn't what I said. I think those who left for reasons of doctrinal, historical, etc. conflicts are telling us the truth. I think that is a more acceptable reason to leave than the Church, and those people who leave for those reasons are more likely to talk about it.

The person who was exed for adultery probably isn't going to talk about it a lot.

[_charity]

I am completely stunned by the Mormons on this board. I have never seen such a complete set of *** in my life.

In my experience, people leave the Church for the following reasons (listed by most common to least numerically):

1) Church doctrines are false, historically whitewashed, lied about, obfuscated, strange, crazy, conveniently change, and/or insane.

2) The Church makes them unhappy.

3) Disfellowshipped/Excommunicated.

4) Other/Unknown

I would say #1 accounts for 90% of the ex-Mormons. #2 Accounts for about the other 9%. #3 for less than 1%. And #4... Who knows...

This survey was conducted in by the Journel of American Christians and Kinsmen of American Secularist Studies.

I would like a link to this survey. Thank you. Of courrse it is a secularist apologist organization, so is it biased?

[_beastie]

That isn't what I said. I think those who left for reasons of doctrinal, historical, etc. conflicts are telling us the truth. I think that is a more acceptable reason to leave than the Church, and those people who leave for those reasons are more likely to talk about it.

The person who was exed for adultery probably isn't going to talk about it a lot.

I see. Thanks for clarifying that, I apologize for misinterpreting you.

You misunderstand. What I think happens is the person choses to no longer believe. Some one thing tips the scale. Thisis what happens to people. We have some internal emotional event and then look for an answer to why we feel the way we do. This is the way panic attacks lead to major problems, such as agoraphobia. A person has an internal event, a burst of epinephrine, a random physical event. This causes feelings of anxiety. The person wants to explain to himself why he is so upset. He looks around to find something that is causing him to feel anxious. He then says to himself, "Oh, I must be worried about having to give that presentation at work on Monday. If I am so stressed out about it I probably won't do a good job." Then he doesn't. The next time he is supposed to make a presentation, he gets nervous (he doesn't need the random ephinephine this time, he produces it on his own, and it becomes a repeating cycle.

I think this is what happens. A person has questions, which eventually tip the scales. When the balance shifts to "the church must not be what is says it is, then the person looks to confirm that thought, and the lens he sees things through does not suddenly become clear, as critics would have us believe, but the tint changes, and now everything looks bad.

You cannot "choose" to no longer believe in something that has no supporting evidence - you simply don't believe. "Choosing" to believe or not believe implies some sort of equitable state in terms of evidence.

Even if one were to accept the "choosing" to no longer believe, why did the person make that "choice" to begin with?

[_the road to hana]

What I think happens is the person choses to no longer believe. Some one thing tips the scale. Thisis what happens to people. We have some internal emotional event and then look for an answer to why we feel the way we do. This is the way panic attacks lead to major problems, such as agoraphobia. A person has an internal event, a burst of epinephrine, a random physical event. This causes feelings of anxiety. The person wants to explain to himself why he is so upset. He looks around to find something that is causing him to feel anxious. He then says to himself, "Oh, I must be worried about having to give that presentation at work on Monday. If I am so stressed out about it I probably won't do a good job." Then he doesn't. The next time he is supposed to make a presentation, he gets nervous (he doesn't need the random ephinephine this time, he produces it on his own, and it becomes a repeating cycle.

I think this is what happens. A person has questions, which eventually tip the scales. When the balance shifts to "the church must not be what is says it is, then the person looks to confirm that thought, and the lens he sees things through does not suddenly become clear, as critics would have us believe, but the tint changes, and now everything looks bad.

It's clear you have no personal experience with this. Your speculations, while interesting, have to be viewed through the lens of someone who does not want to accept the possibility that reasonable people can leave the LDS Church for the reasons they've professed.

[_antishock8]

A person has questions, which eventually tip the scales. When the balance shifts to "the church must not be what is says it is, then the person looks to confirm that thought, and the lens he sees things through does not suddenly become clear, as critics would have us believe, but the tint changes, and now everything looks bad.

That's called "Waking up and smelling the coffee."

Look mon ami, you can "choose" to keep swallowing a load of crap, or you can "choose" to realize that the crap you're swallowing is crap and it's perfectly ok to not have to swallow crap any more. Now. If YOU choose to continue to be a crap-swallower then that's on you, but you certainly shouldn't be advocating crap-swallowing, and you CERTAINLY shouldn't be tut tutting others who think it's not a good idea to swallow crap and "choose" to stop swallowing crap. Not swallowing crap is common sense, woman.

Helloooo... McFly? Is anybody in there? McFly? Helloooooo...?

[_antishock8]

I am completely stunned by the Mormons on this board. I have never seen such a complete set of *** in my life.

In my experience, people leave the Church for the following reasons (listed by most common to least numerically):

1) Church doctrines are false, historically whitewashed, lied about, obfuscated, strange, crazy, conveniently change, and/or insane.

2) The Church makes them unhappy.

3) Disfellowshipped/Excommunicated.

4) Other/Unknown

I would say #1 accounts for 90% of the ex-Mormons. #2 Accounts for about the other 9%. #3 for less than 1%. And #4... Who knows...

This survey was conducted in by the Journel of American Christians and Kinsmen of American Secularist Studies.

I would like a link to this survey. Thank you. Of courrse it is a secularist apologist organization, so is it biased?

Sure. Here's the link: http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=126103#126103