How to Stay in the LDS Church after Losing Your Faith

[_Jason Bourne]

The more I have listened to Dehlin, the more I see him as a closeted shutin exmo.

He lives in the polygamous cousin community of Logan ferchrissakes.

His older brother is the CIO of LDS Inc.

in my opinion, he is too scared to act on his true feelings. Misery loves company and he is gaining many like minded followers with his podcasts.

See PP this is why you really are the antithesis of the apologists that you disdain. You are Coggins and Crockett in opposite. Your narrow minded one dimensional thinking is why you exited the Church so quickly.

NOw guess what dude... if that works for you wonderful! I am happy for you and so is Dehlin. But don't be such a pious ass about your choices to thing they work for everyone and that anyone who tries to work it differently is scared or miserable! You are wrong man.

And if you listened to Dehlin he said he was ready to leave, told his wife that, she said ok...but then he explored other more liberal LDS writers and found a way to make it work for him and be happy about it.

Based on the stuff I have listened to by him as well as some interaction I have had with him I am pretty sure your conclusion above is about as wrong as you can be.

[_Jason Bourne]

Misery loves company and he is gaining many like minded followers with his podcasts.

You know this is really priceless and actually you are a self fulfilling prophecy of this PP. Turn to yourself and look at your rants and glee about trying to take people out. This is a pot and kettle thing PP. Think about it dude.

[_moksha]

Misery loves company and he is gaining many like minded followers with his podcasts.

You know this is really priceless and actually you are a self fulfilling prophecy of this PP. Turn to yourself and look at your rants and glee about trying to take people out. This is a pot and kettle thing PP. Think about it dude.

Sort of a "we are what we post" type of thing, eh?

[_mentalgymnast]

I also understand that not everyone is like me and some people may be happy as peaches to sit quiet on the bench and sleep through sacrament meeting every Sunday for forty years. I have a hard time understanding people like that as I am quite passionate about what I believe, but I do understand they exist.

But you see once again it is not that simple. I don't sleep at church, I enjoy it about 60% of the time. I have faith in a God, and I hope Jesus was what he claimed. I think Joseph Smith was inspired in many aspects to bring truths to the earth but also that he got some thing wrong. I do not believe one group has all truth and most have some. I believe participating in religion for me is worthwhile. I enjoy the spirituality I get, what it does for my personal relationships, it help me ponder life in ways I may not and I enjoy the social aspects as well. That is where I am at now. Could I go another way? Sure, I could decide to leaev at some point or become more TBM again or who knows. But I have goign on three years now and this is where I am at and am quite happy. I think John's approach is good and healthy. He says it does not work for all and he does not marginalize those who choose to leave.

I have arrived at the point in my life...now in my fifties...where I can accept the church on the basis of plausibility. Now if I thought that the whole thing was a total scam and knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was...as many do here...I would leave. A number of years ago I came close to doing so. I stayed because of familial/church ties and pressures to conform. In the meantime, since that time, I've mellowed somewhat and have accepted the possibility that Mormonism may play an important part in a plan that God may have for this world. On the assumption...which I think is valid and reasonable...that there is a God. With a number of not unreasonable tweaks and paradigm shifts it is possible to look at the church as being what it claims to be...in it's basic form. Gospel way of life, core commandments, ordinances, and core beliefs concerning God and the universe, etc.

Living within the church and yet accepting the possibility that it could all be bogus... and yet realizing that there are valid reasons for belief are why I stay. There are many reasons to leave and there are many reasons...besides societal/familial pressures...to stay. So I choose to stay. The way of life is good. Virtue, goodness, kindness, service, thoughtfulness, and love for one's family and fellowman are all part and parcel of being a Mormon. It's not a bad way to live one's life. I talked with my bishop a few years ago in an interview and he said, in effect, if the church isn't true it's a good place to raise a family. I'm a family man, so it works for our family.

To be honest, if I hadn't been a family man a number of years ago when the crap hit the fan as far as my testimony was concerned...I would not be a part of the church membership today. There was too much that was just too weird and clumsy in the whole "restoration story". I stuck with it, however, and now am able to exist reasonably well with in the society of saints accepting the possibility that the church is true... plausibly. In other words's, I don't think that there enough reason/evidence to leave the church behind when there is enough reason/evidence to stay. At least at this point in time.

So I think that I'm OK posting on this thread because at the same time that I'm somewhat agnostic in some of my meanderings and thinking, I'm also willing to look at the flip slide and accept plausible/hopeful belief.

Regards,
MG

[_guy sajer]

Anyone interested in understanding why some may have questions, concerns , doubts and are no longer TBM or Monolithic Mormons but choose to stay and participate in the LDS Church should listen to this. Anyone who has left should also listen. Anyone who live Coggins, or Crockett, who view those less Monolithic then they are, who call some like me cafeteria Mormons and use it as a pejorative should also listen. I think John Dehlin does a great job explaining why he and others want to stay in spite of questions, doubts, concerns or a testimony that is no longer in the TBM mold. It is over an hour long but well worth it. He does not argue that one mold fits all. Anyway, I hope some of you will take the time to listen to this. It will be worth your time.

http://mormonstories.org/?p=388

Mormon Stories #109: How to Stay in the LDS Church after Losing Your Faith

In this seminar (recorded live at the 2007 Northwest Sunstone Symposium in Seattle), I discuss techniques for staying in the LDS church after a major trial of faith.

For what it's worth, Jason, I think John's doing fine work. I can offer no criticism of him.

He has, for example, greatly helped my brother who struggles much with his belief, but who wants to try to find a way to make it work (for what reason, I'm not entirely sure, as I don't think he really finds that much happiness in Mormonism, but I could be wrong). I don't agree with John's reasoning, per se, but I think that there's a substantial demand for something like this from a non-trivial number of Mormons living lives of quiet desperation, if you will.

[_RebelYell]

Jason, thanks for the post and link. I was not able to listen to the podcast but read the essay. I have read/listened to other things by John Dehlin and find him quite likeable and appreciate the opportunity to have sources to look to for more insight in how to sort out where I am with church "stuff".

As a convert, I was immediately struck by some of Johns comments and wonder if this is not something more.... say directed from the church, through the mouth of John, to address convert retention?

President Hinkley 1 year ago: "Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true."

I just can't wrap my arms around the "buffet" Mormon concept - I guess for me it's all or nothing, and quite frankly it hurts.

[_BishopRic]

Jason, thanks for the post and link. I was not able to listen to the podcast but read the essay. I have read/listened to other things by John Dehlin and find him quite likeable and appreciate the opportunity to have sources to look to for more insight in how to sort out where I am with church "stuff".

As a convert, I was immediately struck by some of Johns comments and wonder if this is not something more.... say directed from the church, through the mouth of John, to address convert retention?

President Hinkley 1 year ago: "Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true."

I just can't wrap my arms around the "buffet" Mormon concept - I guess for me it's all or nothing, and quite frankly it hurts.

I think it really comes down to personality types. I have many friends that continue to attend regularly, but don't believe in Joseph's Myth. They like the socialization, the family togetherness...and don't want the confrontation that admitting their beliefs would cause. But like many, I tried that approach and it was unbearably painful, so I "came out."

But since then, I've come to see that there are many ways to approach it. Religion is a huge part of our history. I see that it developed from a need for humans to explain the unexplainable in earlier times. The "miracle-maker in the sky" was an explanation that was as logical as any to the uneducated, and the mythology continues today. It will take many years (and much conflict between generations) for truth to prevail, so the process will be long, arduous, and varied for each of us.

Within Mormonism alone, it is estimated that for each new member that joins, two leave. Then there are the many that continue to attend, but don't believe. I also see many that hang on to a core belief in the restoration, but question the inerrancy of the leadership since the early church. So for each to have some confusion as to what to do is totally natural, in my opinion.

[_Runtu]

Jason, thanks for the post and link. I was not able to listen to the podcast but read the essay. I have read/listened to other things by John Dehlin and find him quite likeable and appreciate the opportunity to have sources to look to for more insight in how to sort out where I am with church "stuff".

As a convert, I was immediately struck by some of Johns comments and wonder if this is not something more.... say directed from the church, through the mouth of John, to address convert retention?

President Hinkley 1 year ago: "Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true."

I just can't wrap my arms around the "buffet" Mormon concept - I guess for me it's all or nothing, and quite frankly it hurts.

I completely understand. I tried to be a cafeteria Mormon, but the longer I looked at it, the more I realized that there wasn't much to eat in the cafeteria that was healthy for me. If all the cafeteria sells is chocolate-covered pork rinds, why stay in the cafeteria? Why not go somewhere else where you can get a real meal?

[_moksha]

I tried to be a cafeteria Mormon, but the longer I looked at it, the more I realized that there wasn't much to eat in the cafeteria that was healthy for me.

Shouldn't have loaded up your plate with so much Mac and Cheese to begin with. Besides, I view it more as an international food court than a cafeteria.

[_Jason Bourne]

Within Mormonism alone, it is estimated that for each new member that joins, two leave. Then there are the many that continue to attend, but don't believe. I also see many that hang on to a core belief in the restoration, but question the inerrancy of the leadership since the early church. So for each to have some confusion as to what to do is totally natural, in my opinion.

2 leave for every one convert? Can you tell me where you get that from?"