Gangbang at MADB

[_Brackite]

The TBMs at MAD, apparently, are so fired up about this Pyrrhic "victory" over carmella, that urroner has posted this: [SNIP!]

Would you say that they're having a "Morgasm?"

LOL!

[_dartagnan]

Mormons are Christian because they have always claimed to be such.

That's a non sequitur. Someone cannot become something simply by professing it. Politicians can claim to be conservative or liberal or whatever, but the fact is there are outside standards that have to be met in order for one to expect the rest of the world to agree.

By that logic, since other Christian Churches have always considered themselves "not apostate," then that means they aren't.

The 19th century rhetoric was slanted towards the claim that Christianity was aposate and the LDS church was an is the Christian Church

I never heard anyone from the 19th century say the LDS Church is the "Christian" Church. But that rhetoric is alive and well today. All other Churches are understood as apostate.

The attack from fundie EVs that Mormons are not Christian is designed to marginalize the LDS Church and what you see now is the reaction along with a desire to be more accepted.

Actually, I no longer believe that. Mormons need to consider the possibility that traditional Christians really do, sincerely believe, Mormons fall outside the scope of Christian. To insist it is some sort of tactic is silly. Its realy how they feel. That is why the Catholic Church doesn't recognize LDS baptisms. Mormons are the ones who want to be accepted.
The interesting thing about Brigham Young's rant about the differences between Mormons and the "Christian world" is that he generalizes the rest of Christianity while Dan Peterson relies on it to be chopped up in various sects. Another thing I found interesting is that Brigham Young is constantly appealing to the Bible.

He never said I know this is true because of "divine revelation." Instead he is constantly informing his audience that he is only going by what the Bible says. This is to his detriment because what he does it make the Bible the ultimate and final authority, not revelation. Now if modern biblical scholarship can say none of these doctrines are supported by the Bible, then what is the Church left with? You guessed it: "Well the Bible was messed with and we rely on revelation anyway." Well, that isn't what Brigham Young said.

On June 24, 1853 he gave a sermon about the situation between Mormons and Christians:

"You say, I have thrown away the New Testament. I say, I have not. Yousay, I have sacrificed it for the Book of Mormon. I say, I have not. I have acknowledged the Bible from the time I could be taught by my parents torevere it. They taught me that it was the sacred word of God. And as far as it could be translated correctly from the Hebrew and Greek languages, it is given to us as pure as it possibly could be given. The Bible is mine,and I am not prepared to have you rob me of it, without my consent. Thedoctrine in it is mine, which I firmly believe...I believe it just as it is. I do not believe in putting any man'sinterpretation upon it, whatever, unless it should be directed by the LordHimself in some way. I do not believe we need interpreters and expoundersof the Scriptures, to wrest them from their literal, plain, simple meaning"

TO say the LDS Church is not an orthodox Christian sect or to say it is a heritical Christian sect based on historical Christian doctrine would be fine.

But nobody except Mormons believe it is based on historical Christian doctrine.

To totally reject the LDS Church is not correct.

Again, Mormons don't have the power to make that happen. You can't force people to consider you something unless you meet their definition. Crying bigotry isn't going to help them either.

In the purest sense the LDS Church should claim that there is no valid Christianity except the LDS Church.

You think it doesn't? Mormons are more likely to embrace people from Islam or whatever other religion. At least they're not apostate.

[_antishock8]

What Mormon President was speaking as a man when he emphatically denied Mormons were Christians?

[_Brackite]

Here is the URL Address to that Discussion Thread:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=32904

[_Imwashingmypirate]

"gangbang"??? Meheh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_bang

[_msnobody]

Good posts Dartagnan. You've made some very good points.

[_ozemc]

Many of the same believers who get huffy when mainstream christians say Mormons aren't christians also get huffy when offshoot fundie Mormon groups are referred to as "Mormon".

Beastie, that is so true!

When the Warren Jeffs thing was going on, my wife and some of the people that I know at her church were very upset that he was called Mormon.

"Well, he's not really Mormon."

"He's not part of the church, he's someone who perverted the teachings."

<Of course, I thought Joseph Smith actually practiced polygamy.>

I found it all very fascinating.

[_Jason Bourne]

The 19th century rhetoric was slanted towards the claim that Christianity was aposate and the LDS church was an is the Christian Church

I never heard anyone from the 19th century say the LDS Church is the "Christian" Church. But that rhetoric is alive and well today. All other Churches are understood as apostate.

D&C 1:29-30
29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

D&C 20:1
1 The arise of the Church of Christ in these last days, being one thousand eight hundred and thirty years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh, it being regularly organized and established agreeable to the laws of our country, by the will and commandments of God, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April—

The attack from fundie EVs that Mormons are not Christian is designed to marginalize the LDS Church and what you see now is the reaction along with a desire to be more accepted.

Actually, I no longer believe that. Mormons need to consider the possibility that traditional Christians really do, sincerely believe, Mormons fall outside the scope of Christian. To insist it is some sort of tactic is silly. Its realy how they feel. That is why the Catholic Church doesn't recognize LDS baptisms. Mormons are the ones who want to be accepted.

Yea I think I can buy that really. We do fall outside the scope of "orthodoxy." That is why I say that calling the LDS church heretical Christians or non Orthodox Christians is better then non Christian. It is certainly a denomination in the Christian tradation.

TO say the LDS Church is not an orthodox Christian sect or to say it is a heritical Christian sect based on historical Christian doctrine would be fine.

But nobody except Mormons believe it is based on historical Christian doctrine.

I think you misunderstood my point. I am not saying one should call the LDS Church historical Christianity.

To totally reject the LDS Church is not correct.

Again, Mormons don't have the power to make that happen. You can't force people to consider you something unless you meet their definition. Crying bigotry isn't going to help them either.

Who sets the definitions? Why are they correct? As for that matter, as I noted before, if LDS believe they are a restoration of Christianity then perhaps they should asset more that they are the only valid Christian faith on the earth. If the others want to exclude the LDS maybe the LDS shoulc happily exclude them.

In the purest sense the LDS Church should claim that there is no valid Christianity except the LDS Church.

You think it doesn't? Mormons are more likely to embrace people from Islam or whatever other religion. At least they're not apostate.

Oh horsecrap