Mountain Meadows

[_Blixa]

Never seen this?



I think the place was nicer--more befittingly somber--before it got gussied up and the apartments in the background don't help any either.

[_Blixa]

Here are two shots from earlier times...earlier than my first visits, even:

(and interesting changes in background and foreground between the two!)

[_Runtu]

Never seen this?



I think the place was nicer--more befittingly somber--before it got gussied up and the apartments in the background don't help any either.

I can't see the picture since they block such stuff here at work. When I went there, the cemetery consisted of a few stone slabs marked with the names of the dead. If I recall correctly, there was a small fence around BY's grave, but that was it.

Yes, the apartments on all sides don't help.

[_Blixa]

Check when you get home. Then go visit next time you are in SLC. We'll go there toghether some time (also many other historical places in SLC!!)

[_Runtu]

Check when you get home. Then go visit next time you are in SLC. We'll go there toghether some time (also many other historical places in SLC!!)

Definitely. And in case charity missed it, you are definitely one of my closest and dearest friends. I'm glad I know you.

[_Alter Idem]

From what I can read on your photos, John Larsen, if I were non-LDS traveling there and happened upon the monument, I would think it was a monument to Mormon's that had been massacred.

I don't think anyone who actually reads the plaques comes away with the idea that they were Mormons who were massacred. It's clear it was a group from Arkansas and that Mormons and indians did the killing.

The monument site is very beautiful--Hard to believe such a horrific event took place there. There's something eery about the place-I wonder if there have been any paranormal or ghostly activities reported there. Blixa, do you know of any stories?

I must say, it had the nicest portable toilet I have ever seen. It was deluxe.

Please demonstrate to me in the images that John Larsen has posted that it is clear that Mormons and Indians did the killing or that the group were non-Mormons.

I ask you seriously, Alter. Did I overlook something in the images?

To Moniker and Jersey. I did not state that it was it was clear from the plaque John was referring to. I said it was clear what happened when one visits the site and reads all the plaques. There are several and they are scattered about on the site. Look, I visited the place once and read all the plaques. I'm very familiar with what happened there and I did not feel that if a visitor read the plaques they would think Mormons had been massacred. That's all I was saying.

The plaque John mentioned specifically was one that was erected to explain why they restored and expanded the monument.

[_John Larsen]

From what I can read on your photos, John Larsen, if I were non-LDS traveling there and happened upon the monument, I would think it was a monument to Mormon's that had been massacred.

I don't think anyone who actually reads the plaques comes away with the idea that they were Mormons who were massacred. It's clear it was a group from Arkansas and that Mormons and indians did the killing.

The monument site is very beautiful--Hard to believe such a horrific event took place there. There's something eery about the place-I wonder if there have been any paranormal or ghostly activities reported there. Blixa, do you know of any stories?

I must say, it had the nicest portable toilet I have ever seen. It was deluxe.

Please demonstrate to me in the images that John Larsen has posted that it is clear that Mormons and Indians did the killing or that the group were non-Mormons.

I ask you seriously, Alter. Did I overlook something in the images?

To Moniker and Jersey. I did not state that it was it was clear from the plaque John was referring to. I said it was clear what happened when one visits the site and reads all the plaques. There are several and they are scattered about on the site. Look, I visited the place once and read all the plaques. I'm very familiar with what happened there and I did not feel that if a visitor read the plaques they would think Mormons had been massacred. That's all I was saying.

The plaque John mentioned specifically was one that was erected to explain why they restored and expanded the monument.

There are only 3 plaques on the Church site:







This is the only information provided as this is the information both at the Church site:



Any information about the event would be gathered at the second site, controlled by the state.

[_Alter Idem]

Fine. I won't argue with you, John. I did not pay attention to who owns which parts of the site. I didn't count the plaques or try to determine who had put what up. I just visited the place, walked around, read the plaques and felt that they had done a nice job of honoring the dead. I did not come away with any feelings that the plaques were misleading--as I said, the one you sited I believed was erected to explain why the church restored and expanded the monument. It didn't go into detail and if you want to find fault with that fine. I felt the other plaques give plenty of information and I just wanted to clarify to JerseyGirl that if a person actually visited the site, they would not come away thinking that Mormons had been massacred.

I don't even remember seeing that wooden information booth. It looks to me like it's old and not needed anymore now that there a nice engraved plaques that tell the story. If I didn't live 400 miles away I could go back and look at the monument to determine if your criticisms are valid, but since I can't, I'll trust my own memory that the story is told accurately by the information found there.

[_John Larsen]

Fine. I won't argue with you, John. I did not pay attention to who owns which parts of the site. I didn't count the plaques or try to determine who had put what up. I just visited the place, walked around, read the plaques and felt that they had done a nice job of honoring the dead. I did not come away with any feelings that the plaques were misleading--as I said, the one you sited I believed was erected to explain why the church restored and expanded the monument. It didn't go into detail and if you want to find fault with that fine. I felt the other plaques give plenty of information and I just wanted to clarify to JerseyGirl that if a person actually visited the site, they would not come away thinking that Mormons had been massacred.

I don't even remember seeing that wooden information booth. It looks to me like it's old and not needed anymore now that there a nice engraved plaques that tell the story. If I didn't live 400 miles away I could go back and look at the monument to determine if your criticisms are valid, but since I can't, I'll trust my own memory that the story is told accurately by the information found there.

The site where you gathered good information was created because the Church refused to provide adequate information at their site. Credit goes where credit is due and the Church cannot get any credit for giving out accurate information at their site. The Church could have turned over the site years ago to the state and there would have been no need for the second site. But they refuse to do so.

[_Alter Idem]

As for suggesting that Charity is overlooking the suffering of "real people." I seriously doubt she sees the Fancher descendants as anything but anti-mormons.

This is why the church will not grow; Led by arrogant idiots, who will not admit mistakes and think they are the best thing happened to Planet.
Fine with me, While I'll be not happy to see them (LDS) wither, it is inevitable.

In defense of other LDS, Charity's views on this subject do not represent all LDS. For all the Mormons who participated or wanted to cover it up, there were many others who would not have participated and after it happened, would not let the crime be forgotten. When the makeshift monuments were destroyed, they were rebuilt--so it would not be lost to history. It was Juanita Brooks, an active LDS person who researched Mountain Meadows and gave historians today a solid wealth of information to work from.