I also think Lee's sexual bragging put everybody off. He was very grabby about acquiring wives, but then that wasn't all that unusual among those with higher status or otherwise favored by the authorities. But I've never run across any saint from the period who seemed to be as vocal about his sexual habits as Lee. The people whose journals and diaries I've read were no prudes, nor did they favor Victorian euphemisms and uptight language. I mean you've read BY going on about fly turds and s*** pots, we all have. Still, Lee is the only person who is ever mentioned as boasting in detail about his prodigious sexual appetites and abilities. A story about Lee claiming to have "frigged" one of his wives 20 times in one night even ends up in some Seventies minutes! He was vain and tactless and his fall was probably relished by many outside of the MMM connection.
LOL! I guess this was before Mormons had been instructed that polygamy had nothing to do with sexual desire....
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
I also think Lee's sexual bragging put everybody off. He was very grabby about acquiring wives, but then that wasn't all that unusual among those with higher status or otherwise favored by the authorities. But I've never run across any saint from the period who seemed to be as vocal about his sexual habits as Lee. The people whose journals and diaries I've read were no prudes, nor did they favor Victorian euphemisms and uptight language. I mean you've read BY going on about fly turds and s*** pots, we all have. Still, Lee is the only person who is ever mentioned as boasting in detail about his prodigious sexual appetites and abilities. A story about Lee claiming to have "frigged" one of his wives 20 times in one night even ends up in some Seventies minutes! He was vain and tactless and his fall was probably relished by many outside of the MMM connection.
LOL! I guess this was before Mormons had been instructed that polygamy had nothing to do with sexual desire....
Yes, I don't recall anything about this being taught in my HS Seminary classes!
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
I also think Lee's sexual bragging put everybody off. He was very grabby about acquiring wives, but then that wasn't all that unusual among those with higher status or otherwise favored by the authorities. But I've never run across any saint from the period who seemed to be as vocal about his sexual habits as Lee. The people whose journals and diaries I've read were no prudes, nor did they favor Victorian euphemisms and uptight language. I mean you've read BY going on about fly turds and s*** pots, we all have. Still, Lee is the only person who is ever mentioned as boasting in detail about his prodigious sexual appetites and abilities. A story about Lee claiming to have "frigged" one of his wives 20 times in one night even ends up in some Seventies minutes! He was vain and tactless and his fall was probably relished by many outside of the MMM connection.
LOL! I guess this was before Mormons had been instructed that polygamy had nothing to do with sexual desire....
Yes, I don't recall anything about this being taught in my HS Seminary classes!
I also think Lee's sexual bragging put everybody off. He was very grabby about acquiring wives, but then that wasn't all that unusual among those with higher status or otherwise favored by the authorities. But I've never run across any saint from the period who seemed to be as vocal about his sexual habits as Lee. The people whose journals and diaries I've read were no prudes, nor did they favor Victorian euphemisms and uptight language. I mean you've read BY going on about fly turds and s*** pots, we all have. Still, Lee is the only person who is ever mentioned as boasting in detail about his prodigious sexual appetites and abilities. A story about Lee claiming to have "frigged" one of his wives 20 times in one night even ends up in some Seventies minutes! He was vain and tactless and his fall was probably relished by many outside of the MMM connection.
LOL! I guess this was before Mormons had been instructed that polygamy had nothing to do with sexual desire....
Yes, I don't recall anything about this being taught in my HS Seminary classes!
You definitely would have remembered that lesson!
That's hilarious. It ended up in the Seventies minutes?
Membership Compassionate Service Discussion:
1 -Discussed widow Mary's plight since her husband died. We helped her milk some cows and clean the corrals so she could help her daughters make soap.
2 -Brother Jones has had a bout of pneumonia. They're holding out ok, we had some of the brethren help him with the ranch chores.
3 -There were reports of ruckus late last night at Brother Lee's. He reports that they are all mighty fine, but a little exhausted as he frigged sister Sue 20 times last night.
"I think one of the great mysteries of the gospel is that anyone still believes it." Sethbag, MADB, Feb 22 2008
Blixa, how did John D. Lee being adopted into Brigham Young's Celestial family affect his behavior before and after the Massacre. Was Lee being in his Celestial family through the adoption ceremony, a especially troubling to President Young during Lee's scapegoating?
moksha wrote:Blixa, how did John D. Lee being adopted into Brigham Young's Celestial family affect his behavior before and after the Massacre. Was Lee being in his Celestial family through the adoption ceremony, a especially troubling to President Young during Lee's scapegoating?
I don't think it made any difference to Young. Young simply wiped him off his shoe as simply as he would one of his "fly turds."
To Lee it was probably one of the reasons he was so loyal right up to the end, though his enormous regard for Joseph Smith was also a factor in his desire to serve the church.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
moksha wrote:Blixa, how did John D. Lee being adopted into Brigham Young's Celestial family affect his behavior before and after the Massacre. Was Lee being in his Celestial family through the adoption ceremony, a especially troubling to President Young during Lee's scapegoating?
I don't think it made any difference to Young. Young simply wiped him off his shoe as simply as he would one of his "fly turds."
To Lee it was probably one of the reasons he was so loyal right up to the end, though his enormous regard for Joseph Smith was also a factor in his desire to serve the church.
I'd say Lee continued to be loyal to absolve himself of his crime. As long as he could maintain that he had followed priesthood leaders and that he was acting to protect the saints, and that his actions were right, he could rationalize what he'd done. He could sleep at night.
If he turned on them, he would be forced to face the fact that he was guilty of murder--something he never allowed himself to do in this life, as far as we can tell.
Since you guys believe Young ordered the attack, you won't agree, but I believe Brigham Young grew to blame and resent Lee and the others for what they had done, acting in such a reckless and wicked manner. I think he protected Lee and the others for years because it was in the best interests of the chruch, but then, as the troubles mounted, I think he decided it was time to cut Lee loose. I wish he'd "wiped him off his shoe" when he first learned the true extent of Lee's and the others guilt...
Alter Idem wrote:I'd say Lee continued to be loyal to absolve himself of his crime. As long as he could maintain that he had followed priesthood leaders and that he was acting to protect the saints, and that his actions were right, he could rationalize what he'd done. He could sleep at night. If he turned on them, he would be forced to face the fact that he was guilty of murder--something he never allowed himself to do in this life, as far as we can tell.
Since you guys believe Young ordered the attack, you won't agree, but I believe Brigham Young grew to blame and resent Lee and the others for what they had done, acting in such a reckless and wicked manner. I think he protected Lee and the others for years because it was in the best interests of the chruch, but then, as the troubles mounted, I think he decided it was time to cut Lee loose. I wish he'd "wiped him off his shoe" when he first learned the true extent of Lee's and the others guilt...
I for one don't believe BY ordered the attack, but he certainly took the lead in creating the atmosphere of paranoia and fervor that led to the attack. I think Lee probably was convinced that he had done the church's and God's will in killing those people. I agree that Young resented Lee for bringing so much unwanted attention on the church and on him specifically.
Runtu wrote: I for one don't believe BY ordered the attack, but he certainly took the lead in creating the atmosphere of paranoia and fervor that led to the attack. I think Lee probably was convinced that he had done the church's and God's will in killing those people. I agree that Young resented Lee for bringing so much unwanted attention on the church and on him specifically.
I agree with you and J.Brooks--the church leaders fanned the flames of hysteria and fear with the oncoming army and the rigid, fanatical "reformation" teachings indoctrinated a group of people who could kill innocents believing they were defending themselves and their loved ones--and some probably even felt they were acting as avengers, like the Levites cleansing the camp of Israel--or even more apropo, like Simeon and Levi taking revenge by massacring the recuperating circumcized Hivites without Jacob's knowledge, causing him to "stink" among the peoples of the land.
Alter Idem wrote:I'd say Lee continued to be loyal to absolve himself of his crime. As long as he could maintain that he had followed priesthood leaders and that he was acting to protect the saints, and that his actions were right, he could rationalize what he'd done. He could sleep at night. If he turned on them, he would be forced to face the fact that he was guilty of murder--something he never allowed himself to do in this life, as far as we can tell.
Since you guys believe Young ordered the attack, you won't agree, but I believe Brigham Young grew to blame and resent Lee and the others for what they had done, acting in such a reckless and wicked manner. I think he protected Lee and the others for years because it was in the best interests of the chruch, but then, as the troubles mounted, I think he decided it was time to cut Lee loose. I wish he'd "wiped him off his shoe" when he first learned the true extent of Lee's and the others guilt...
I for one don't believe BY ordered the attack, but he certainly took the lead in creating the atmosphere of paranoia and fervor that led to the attack. I think Lee probably was convinced that he had done the church's and God's will in killing those people. I agree that Young resented Lee for bringing so much unwanted attention on the church and on him specifically.
I agree. I think BY was too smart to order such an attack. However, he and the Church are responsible for creating the environment the caused it to happen.