Cafeteria Mormons

[_Some Schmo]

I wouldn't say I'm critical of cafetiria Mormonism. If one is to be Mormon at all, that's the best way to go.

The question, as far as I'm concerned, is why bother (excluding reasons of family and circumstance, of course)? If it's to have access to church resources like their gymnasium and baseball diamonds, it seems to me to be a fairly high price to pay (I realize that's not why people go; I'm just left wondering why, if you don't completely believe it and don't have social pressures to attend, would one bother with Mormonism at all.

I've asked liz this question (and for some reason, she declines to answer) but it's a question for all cafeteria Mormons: what value do you get from the church that you couldn't get elsewhere? This is not a challenge or a veiled criticism, but a sincere question to satisfy my curiosity, because I, for the life of me, can't think of a single thing.

[_Jason Bourne]

Oh I suppose it would be nice to be a Martin Luther reformer for the LDS Church. Guy Sajer suggests that someone should be. Maybe I am too much of wimp. But I am not that worried about it now.

Consider what you just wrote.

Martin Luther was excommunicated. He did not reform the church that kicked him to the curb.

To the TBM and hierarchy you would not be a lost sheep or an inspired sheep but a wolf. And when they are apprised of the intents of your heart you will be dealt similarly as Luther was.

The definition of what you consider "reform" is a matter of perspective.

Ok

your comments are fair.

[_JAK]

I have never met anyone who wasn't a cafeteria Mormon. The fact is, it is logically impossible to not be one. The Church has issued so many "dishes" that were either contradictory with others, impossibly high, or flat-out make believe that you could not function any other way then as a cafeteria Mormon.

John,

You have identified that which is inherent in the evolution of religious doctrines.

It also characterizes that faith-based conclusions are unreliable and that truth by assertion is not truth.

JAK

[_Jason Bourne]

I wouldn't say I'm critical of cafetiria Mormonism. If one is to be Mormon at all, that's the best way to go.

The question, as far as I'm concerned, is why bother (excluding reasons of family and circumstance, of course)? If it's to have access to church resources like their gymnasium and baseball diamonds, it seems to me to be a fairly high price to pay (I realize that's not why people go; I'm just left wondering why, if you don't completely believe it and don't have social pressures to attend, would one bother with Mormonism at all.

I've asked liz this question (and for some reason, she declines to answer) but it's a question for all cafeteria Mormons: what value do you get from the church that you couldn't get elsewhere? This is not a challenge or a veiled criticism, but a sincere question to satisfy my curiosity, because I, for the life of me, can't think of a single thing.

1: I believe or have faith that there is a God

2: I hope Jesus had something to do with God and place my faith there

3: I believe that regardless of the foibles all religions seem to pick up GOd inspires people to bring religions to earth to help them find a spiritual life. Some religions work better than others for various persons. I think God gave Joseph Smith inspiration on many things that he taught and the the LDS Church is best for some of the worlds people. I feel I happen to be one of them.

4: Since I want religion in my life I choose to satisfy that need through the LDS Church. I have not found one I think is better for me

5: Religion gives me a chance to and encourages me to serve my fellow men and women in ways I think most of humanity misses out on without it. The LDC Church in the way it is structured gives me an even more unique way to serve. Sure I could serve without it. But would I and do many serve without some vehicle that prods and encourages them to do so? I could share numerous experiences about this area that I think I would not ever had been a part of but for my involvement with the LDS Church. I recommend Eugene Englund's essay called Why the Church is as true as the Gospel.

6: I do think religion can give a better moral grounding to persons and to raising a family. I could be wrong and I am sure many non believers teach good values and morals without religion. But religion seems to encourage this more.


7: I think that practicing LDS can and often do have marriages that are better able to weather marital difficult storms that all marriages face. In some cases it my be a grit your teeth and stick it out situation. But my experience is that most LDS marriages seem fairly stable and happy.

[_Yoda]

I've asked liz this question (and for some reason, she declines to answer) but it's a question for all cafeteria Mormons: what value do you get from the church that you couldn't get elsewhere? This is not a challenge or a veiled criticism, but a sincere question to satisfy my curiosity, because I, for the life of me, can't think of a single thing.

Sorry, Schmo. I wasn't avoiding your question. I just haven't been on the board much lately.

Jason's answer is actually a great summary, and pretty closely follows my feelings as well.

Part of my draw to the Church is that, for me, as a person who has grown up with the Church in her life, it is familiar. It is a grounding and a home for me, of sorts.

I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus. My personal feeling is that Christ recognizes your worship of Him wherever you are. So, yes, there are obviously other places I could do this. But the LDS Church is a familiar place for me to do this, even though I don't believe in all of the LDS tenets carte blanch.

I also have family ties to the Church. My husband is a member. His family and my family are all members.

I have close friends in my Ward who I enjoy communicating with. Since my schedule is crazy during the week, Sunday is the best time to touch base with them.

I enjoy my calling. I play the piano for Primary, and I enjoy that opportunity to play the piano for two hours. I love the music, and I enjoy watching the kids' antics.

[_Some Schmo]

Thanks for attempting an answer Jason. It's sincerely much appreciated.

...what value do you get from the church that you couldn't get elsewhere? This is not a challenge or a veiled criticism, but a sincere question to satisfy my curiosity, because I, for the life of me, can't think of a single thing.

1: I believe or have faith that there is a God

You don't need the church for that, though.

2: I hope Jesus had something to do with God and place my faith there

This isn't a value. It's a desire, and one that could be held in or out of the church.

3: I believe that regardless of the foibles all religions seem to pick up GOd inspires people to bring religions to earth to help them find a spiritual life. Some religions work better than others for various persons. I think God gave Joseph Smith inspiration on many things that he taught and the the LDS Church is best for some of the worlds people. I feel I happen to be one of them.

I'm not sure how religion gives anyone a leg up on attaining "spirituality" over anyone else (depending on your particular definition of the word "spirituality" of course). I've met atheists and agnostics that could be considered very spiritual people (again, depending on your definition of that hazy word) and religious folks that seem like the direct spawn of Satan.

4: Since I want religion in my life I choose to satisfy that need through the LDS Church. I have not found one I think is better for me

This is the first answer you’ve given that to me, directly answers the question and that I have to respect. If you just want religion for religion's sake, who am I to question what you do with your free time? This is a good answer.

5: Religion gives me a chance to and encourages me to serve my fellow men and women in ways I think most of humanity misses out on without it. The LDC Church in the way it is structured gives me an even more unique way to serve. Sure I could serve without it. But would I and do many serve without some vehicle that prods and encourages them to do so? I could share numerous experiences about this area that I think I would not ever had been a part of but for my involvement with the LDS Church. I recommend Eugene Englund's essay called Why the Church is as true as the Gospel.

I think this is a pretty common fallacy. People who want to serve just do it. They aren't going to be dictated to one way or another. If you're saying that religion causes lazy folks to serve despite themselves, I wonder about the quality of that service, and the true benefit to the individual who’s emotionally blackmailed into serving.

6: I do think religion can give a better moral grounding to persons and to raising a family. I could be wrong and I am sure many non believers teach good values and morals without religion. But religion seems to encourage this more.

Well, as I've said before, morality informs your religion, not the other way around. One of the main reasons I think the LDS church appeals to you personally is that its morals are largely aligned with your own. If the church suddenly told you that you should go out and kill doctors granting abortions, I'm willing to bet you would disregard that "moral" and stick to the intrinsic set of morals with which you were born. I mean, you are considered a cafeteria Mormon strictly because you only practice the religion to the extent with which you agree with it. You deserve the credit for the morals you adhere to, not the religion.

7: I think that practicing LDS can and often do have marriages that are better able to weather marital difficult storms that all marriages face. In some cases it my be a grit your teeth and stick it out situation. But my experience is that most LDS marriages seem fairly stable and happy.

Well... at least, they appear happy.

But regardless, again, I think you're misappropriating credit where it's not due. Individuals with fortitude make marriages last, not the religion to which they "belong."

Again, I appreciate the list you made, but of the seven things you named, only one seems like a value one could only get from being a Mormon.

[_Some Schmo]

Part of my draw to the Church is that, for me, as a person who has grown up with the Church in her life, it is familiar. It is a grounding and a home for me, of sorts.

I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus. My personal feeling is that Christ recognizes your worship of Him wherever you are. So, yes, there are obviously other places I could do this. But the LDS Church is a familiar place for me to do this, even though I don't believe in all of the LDS tenets carte blanch.

Fair enough.

I also have family ties to the Church. My husband is a member. His family and my family are all members.

I can see this as a motivation for going, but I'm not sure it qualifies as a value. Perhaps the implicit value is family harmony? If so, it seems to be to be a sad state when harmony in the family is contingent on aligned beliefs and practices, but it is what it is, and I don't blame you for it.

I have close friends in my Ward who I enjoy communicating with. Since my schedule is crazy during the week, Sunday is the best time to touch base with them.

Excellent reason.

I enjoy my calling. I play the piano for Primary, and I enjoy that opportunity to play the piano for two hours. I love the music, and I enjoy watching the kids' antics.

Also very good. You may be able to get this elsewhere, but you're currently situated there, so the value lies in not having to find another opportunity to do that which you enjoy.

Thanks very much for the post, liz. I'll meet you in the goddess suite later and thank you properly, of course.

[_Yoda]

Thanks very much for the post, liz. I'll meet you in the goddess suite later and thank you properly, of course.

Thanks, sweetie. That reminds me. I wonder if Bond is still tied up over there. Jersey Girl was suppose to untie him a few days ago. ;)

(Sorry for the derailment. Couldn't resist. Back to your regularly scheduled thread. LOL)

[_BishopRic]

Thanks for attempting an answer Jason. It's sincerely much appreciated.

...Again, I appreciate the list you made, but of the seven things you named, only one seems like a value one could only get from being a Mormon.

Sometimes I play a few games of solitaire on the computer when I've been working hard. It relaxes me. It is rote. My brain can do it without thinking much. In a way, it is therapy. It's just what I do.

I think many just "do church." They grew up with it, it's a routine they get into, and there is therapy to it. It sounds like a few here have been able to ignore the weird things taught, and take in the parts that work for them. Is there anything seriously damaging to that?

[_Always Thinking]

Thanks for attempting an answer Jason. It's sincerely much appreciated.

...Again, I appreciate the list you made, but of the seven things you named, only one seems like a value one could only get from being a Mormon.

Sometimes I play a few games of solitaire on the computer when I've been working hard. It relaxes me. It is rote. My brain can do it without thinking much. In a way, it is therapy. It's just what I do.

I think many just "do church." They grew up with it, it's a routine they get into, and there is therapy to it. It sounds like a few here have been able to ignore the weird things taught, and take in the parts that work for them. Is there anything seriously damaging to that?

I think that may be how I've been for the last 6 or 7 years. It is habit. It is socially enjoyable. I didn't mind it. My husband has tolerated my desire to go. But church for him is very stressful. He hates it. He has been going with me, and patiently waiting for me to get to the point where I don't "need" it anymore. I think I am finally there. I am at the point where my thoughts, attitudes, feelings, etc. no longer align with Mormonism. I just don't fit in anymore.

I was released from my calling 3 weeks ago, and we haven't been to church since then. It has been nice. LOL, I just a few minutes ago got a phone call from a friend in the ward who has noticed that I've not been there. She called to chat, but I'm sure she was curious as to why I haven't been there. She asked, but I offered no explanation.

Now comes the hard part. My immediate family will eventually start to notice that we aren't attending, and they will wonder what is up. My parents don't live in my stake, but they do live nearby, and it will become obvious when we don't baptize my daughter in May or ordain my son as a deacon in April.

I guess after 7 years, I may finally quit going, and no longer be a cafeteria Mormon.