Some Schmo wrote:Thanks for attempting an answer Jason. It's sincerely much appreciated.
...Again, I appreciate the list you made, but of the seven things you named, only one seems like a value one could only get from being a Mormon.
Sometimes I play a few games of solitaire on the computer when I've been working hard. It relaxes me. It is rote. My brain can do it without thinking much. In a way, it is therapy. It's just what I do.
I think many just "do church." They grew up with it, it's a routine they get into, and there is therapy to it. It sounds like a few here have been able to ignore the weird things taught, and take in the parts that work for them. Is there anything seriously damaging to that?
Well, certainly not as seriously damaging as buying it all hook, line and sinker.
But what I will say is that while it may not be damaging to the person who'd just using it to pass the time or whatever, it could be damaging to that person's family. It's one thing to go yourself; it's something entirely different to subject your kids to it. There's little question that my family would have been better off without it, for example.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Some Schmo wrote:Thanks for attempting an answer Jason. It's sincerely much appreciated.
...Again, I appreciate the list you made, but of the seven things you named, only one seems like a value one could only get from being a Mormon.
Sometimes I play a few games of solitaire on the computer when I've been working hard. It relaxes me. It is rote. My brain can do it without thinking much. In a way, it is therapy. It's just what I do.
I think many just "do church." They grew up with it, it's a routine they get into, and there is therapy to it. It sounds like a few here have been able to ignore the weird things taught, and take in the parts that work for them. Is there anything seriously damaging to that?
Well, certainly not as seriously damaging as buying it all hook, line and sinker.
But what I will say is that while it may not be damaging to the person who'd just using it to pass the time or whatever, it could be damaging to that person's family. It's one thing to go yourself; it's something entirely different to subject your kids to it. There's little question that my family would have been better off without it, for example.
I don't mean to keep being the contrarion, and I DO agree with most of what you said, but I think as far as the kids go, it depends on the community and the friends. I think if you live in Provo (bubble) Utah, and all your neighbors and kid's friends are active LDS, there may be less damage by letting them go to church -- as compared to the rejection that Mormon kids are sometimes good at.
My fiance (Tori) has been good at keeping the communication lines open with her kids as they go to activities periodically. They live in Orem, and pretty much don't believe, but they are able to mostly have good friendships by being a little bit active. Not the best situation, but perhaps the lesser of two evils -- rejected kids don't do so well, in my opinion.
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
BishopRic wrote: I don't mean to keep being the contrarion, and I DO agree with most of what you said, but I think as far as the kids go, it depends on the community and the friends. I think if you live in Provo (bubble) Utah, and all your neighbors and kid's friends are active LDS, there may be less damage by letting them go to church -- as compared to the rejection that Mormon kids are sometimes good at.
My fiance (Tori) has been good at keeping the communication lines open with her kids as they go to activities periodically. They live in Orem, and pretty much don't believe, but they are able to mostly have good friendships by being a little bit active. Not the best situation, but perhaps the lesser of two evils -- rejected kids don't do so well, in my opinion.
This is an excellent point (if not a little sad due to its reality). I've never lived in Utah, so I never grew up with that context. I imagine living in that environment introduces a completely different set of rules.
I grew up in a place where being a Mormon was an embarrassment, and a huge source of shame. I have trouble imagining it being different, but obviously, it would be in Utah.
Hmph... something to think about.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
I appreciate your comments and see some of your points. I have no desire to debate this back an d forth however.
I will make one point. Service. I think unless people have something to prod them to get outside themselves they do not. I know so many of the things I have done through serving in the LDS Church I most likely would never have done on my own accord. And even had I on my own accord I have had some unique experiences that would only come in within the way the LDS Church does things. For that I am grateful.
liz3564 wrote:I have PP telling me I'm spineless and I'm going to ruin my kids lives if I don't leave the Church completely. I have people like Bob Crockett, BC, and Coggins telling me that if I don't blindly accept everything the Church says, I don't belong there. Oh, I suppose that according to Will the jerk Schryver's comments about wanting to "hunt people down" and report them, I would be on his list, too.
What gives, guys? Why are Jason, Harmony, Moksha, Rollo, and I considered to be such enigmas? Don't you think there are other Mormons out there like us?
I have never said such a thing. Just because I assert my view of doctrine and policy does not mean I think that all should agree with me.
My particular point continues to be that if you use anonymity to challenge the church or criticize its leaders, you're just weak. If you do so and, at the same time, are active in real life, you're also hypocritical. But, I digress.
rcrocket wrote:My particular point continues to be that if you use anonymity to challenge the church or criticize its leaders, you're just weak. If you do so and, at the same time, are active in real life, you're also hypocritical. But, I digress.
A little digression is good for the soul. What I have always admired about Bob is that he and I have always used avatars that clearly resemble us instead of cowardly other avatars that would puff us up (like a Mastodon) or make us look prettier (like Johnny Depp), especially since we go to the same Church.
As far as giving our actual names, why that would just be plumb foolish.
Wow...a cordial discussion between Jason, liz and Schmo. I hope others on the board take this as an example. How different this is from the rhetoric of ecclesiastical threat, attempts to "talk down," and shaming. Not only that, each seems to have actually read the other's replies and responded to them and not to some imagined battle of good vs. evil.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
I appreciate your comments and see some of your points. I have no desire to debate this back an d forth however.
I never wanted to debate it either. I was really interested in your answers. And it's enough for me to trust you when you say you simply like it. That's value enough for you.
Jason Bourne wrote:I will make one point. Service. I think unless people have something to prod them to get outside themselves they do not. I know so many of the things I have done through serving in the LDS Church I most likely would never have done on my own accord. And even had I on my own accord I have had some unique experiences that would only come in within the way the LDS Church does things. For that I am grateful.
I think this is true to an extent, but for my own part, I have nothing prodding me to serve others apart from my own desire to do so. If I didn't have my own will to serve, I'd never have to do anything for anyone.
I honestly think you don't give yourself enough credit, big guy.
Blixa wrote: Wow...a cordial discussion between Jason, liz and Schmo.
Thanks B, but it's not that hard in this case. I've always respected Jason and liz despite our various disagreements.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.