Dynasitc Marriages-Doctrinal Question

[_harmony]

Since there is absolutely no evidence at all that any of the so-called polyandrous sealings were in any degree "marriages" I think that is the more sensible interpretation.

Absolutely? No? Evidence?

Good grief.

[_Yoda]

I also find it interesting that there is no documentation in the D&C regarding Joseph's sealings to other married women. I have found this strange. He was certainly vocal about the practice of plural marriage in section 132. Why not this issue, which is even more controversial?

Maybe because the sealings were not marriages? Sealings not meant as husband and wife? Sealings of unrelated people to each other occurred until almost 1890, when the practice was halted.

For instance, one man, David Candland, with no blood or legal relationship of any kind, adoption, etc. was sealed to Heber C. Kimball and used the Kimball name during a mission.

Since there is absolutely no evidence at all that any of the so-called polyandrous sealings were in any degree "marriages" I think that is the more sensible interpretation.

OK, but why, if these were simply "adoption" sealings, were the husbands not also sealed to Joseph? And why weren't these women who were sealed to Joseph in this way not also sealed to their husbands in a spousal context? He sealed other husbands and wives together. That's what I'm having a hard time understanding..the inconsistency.

Did all of the married women who Joseph was sealed to have non-member husbands? If this was the case, that would make some sense, because he could have been planning to seal the wives to the husbands after death, and obviously, since Joseph was murdered, he couldn't complete that process.

[cacheman]

Maybe because the sealings were not marriages? Sealings not meant as husband and wife?

CFR on any of Joseph Smith's sealings to married women being something other than husband and wife.

Sealings of unrelated people to each other occurred until almost 1890, when the practice was halted.

Can you give me some (any) examples of Joseph being sealed to someone other than as husband and wife? It is generally understood that such sealings did not take place during Joseph Smith's lifetime. On the contrary, the wives themselves referred to themselves as wives and were sealed to Joseph as such. Here's Gordon Irving in BYU Studies:

No consensus exists with regard to the date when the first adoptions were performed; any conclusions as to whether the ordinance was practiced during Joseph Smith's lifetime must be viewed as tentative.

For instance, one man, David Candland, with no blood or legal relationship of any kind, adoption, etc. was sealed to Heber C. Kimball and used the Kimball name during a mission.

Since there is absolutely no evidence at all that any of the so-called polyandrous sealings were in any degree "marriages" I think that is the more sensible interpretation.

Um, I call BS on this, charity. There is no evidence whatsoever that these sealings were adoptive, and it is highly disingenuous to suggest that there is no evidence that they were marriages. To say so would make liars of the women who were sealed as wives.

So, again, CFR on these sealings being adoptive.

Edit: Are you saying that the polyandrous wives were lying? Here's Mary Lightner Rollins, who was sealed to Joseph while married to Adam Lightner:

I was sealed to Joseph Smith, the Prophet, by commandment. In the spring of 1831, the Savior appeared and commanded him to seal me up to everlasting life, gave me to Joseph to be with him in his Kingdom, even as he is in the Father's Kingdom. In 1834 he was commanded to take me for a wife. I was a thousand miles from him. He got afraid. The angel came to him three times, the last with a drawn sword and threatened his life. ... Joseph said I was his before I came her and he said all the Devils in Hell should never get me from him. I was sealed to him in the Masonic Hall, over the old brick store by Brigham Young in February 1842 and then again in the Nauvoo Temple by Heberl C. Kimball.

Was she lying when she said he was commanded to take her as a wife?

[_Yoda]

My other question is, if these polyandrous sealings were adoptive sealings, why did he hide them from Emma? Emma certainly wouldn't have cared if they weren't marriages.

[_Runtu]

My other question is, if these polyandrous sealings were adoptive sealings, why did he hide them from Emma? Emma certainly wouldn't have cared if they weren't marriages.

See my post above. Mary Lightner certainly understood it as a marriage. The only person, it seems, who believes they weren't marriages is charity. :)

[_charity]

Since there is absolutely no evidence at all that any of the so-called polyandrous sealings were in any degree "marriages" I think that is the more sensible interpretation.

Absolutely? No? Evidence?

Good grief.

Open your eyes, Harmony. No cohabitation. No offpsring. Women stayed with their husbands. What is your evidence?

[_Yoda]

My other question is, if these polyandrous sealings were adoptive sealings, why did he hide them from Emma? Emma certainly wouldn't have cared if they weren't marriages.

See my post above. Mary Lightner certainly understood it as a marriage. The only person, it seems, who believes they weren't marriages is charity. :)

Was Mary's husband, Adam, a Church member?

[_truth dancer]

Open your eyes, Harmony. No cohabitation. No offpsring. Women stayed with their husbands. What is your evidence?

Umm... how many married men with families cohabitate and have offspring with the women with whom they are secretely having affairs?

LOL!

This line of reasoning is really silly.

:-)

Liz...

Did all of the married women who Joseph was sealed to have non-member husbands? If this was the case, that would make some sense, because he could have been planning to seal the wives to the husbands after death, and obviously, since Joseph was murdered, he couldn't complete that process.

No, several of the husbands were quite high up in the church and friends of Joseph Smith.

~dancer~

[_charity]

I also find it interesting that there is no documentation in the D&C regarding Joseph's sealings to other married women. I have found this strange. He was certainly vocal about the practice of plural marriage in section 132. Why not this issue, which is even more controversial?

Maybe because the sealings were not marriages? Sealings not meant as husband and wife? Sealings of unrelated people to each other occurred until almost 1890, when the practice was halted.

For instance, one man, David Candland, with no blood or legal relationship of any kind, adoption, etc. was sealed to Heber C. Kimball and used the Kimball name during a mission.

Since there is absolutely no evidence at all that any of the so-called polyandrous sealings were in any degree "marriages" I think that is the more sensible interpretation.

OK, but why, if these were simply "adoption" sealings, were the husbands not also sealed to Joseph? And why weren't these women who were sealed to Joseph in this way not also sealed to their husbands in a spousal context? He sealed other husbands and wives together. That's what I'm having a hard time understanding..the inconsistency.

Did all of the married women who Joseph was sealed to have non-member husbands? If this was the case, that would make some sense, because he could have been planning to seal the wives to the husbands after death, and obviously, since Joseph was murdered, he couldn't complete that process.

The problem is we simply don't have the details. And speculating about it isn't going to give us the details. There is NO first hand account written by anyone. So it is extremely unfair and completely useless to try to come up with anything that could even closely approximate the truth.

Why would anyone want to engage in endless, meaningless speculation? I guess I know the answer to that question. People who want to demonize Joseph Smith. If you don't have facts to prove a case, you can always speculate and spread rumors. Did you read what people gossiping and spreading rumors did in Liz's family? I said shame on them. It applies to everyone who does the same thing.

[_Yoda]

Well, I, for one, am not trying to demonize Joseph Smith. That has never been my intent with this thread. I am trying to understand a lot of inconsistencies that make absolutely no sense to me, as a Church member.

I really appreciate everyone's insights.