moksha wrote:It gives people a feeling of connectedness to the great beyond.
But is that necessarily a useful or a good thing?
And if these feelings are inauthentic (brain chemistry, etc) what does that say of their utility?
But, is it really inauthentic if it's brain chemistry? If it gives some a sense of eternal, or they are spiritual, because of the "god part" of their brain that doesn't mean it's "fake".
moksha wrote:It gives people a feeling of connectedness to the great beyond.
But is that necessarily a useful or a good thing?
And if these feelings are inauthentic (brain chemistry, etc) what does that say of their utility?
But, is it really inauthentic if it's brain chemistry? If it gives some a sense of eternal, or they are spiritual, because of the "god part" of their brain that doesn't mean it's "fake".
Should we pass out neurotheology pamphlets??
If I trip on acid it does not mean that my surroundings have been altered. Brain Chemistry cannot project itself into the corporeal world unless, for instance someone interprets the altered state and acts on what is not really there.
If someone has a spiritual experience and believes God is ordering them to kill their kids then I think religion has harmful implications. on the same side of the coin close to the edge, what of those Mormons who shun exmormons because it is part of the culture of their religion?
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
moksha wrote:It gives people a feeling of connectedness to the great beyond.
But is that necessarily a useful or a good thing?
And if these feelings are inauthentic (brain chemistry, etc) what does that say of their utility?
But, is it really inauthentic if it's brain chemistry? If it gives some a sense of eternal, or they are spiritual, because of the "god part" of their brain that doesn't mean it's "fake".
Should we pass out neurotheology pamphlets??
If it is a brain function, religion is not useful for that reason.
moksha wrote:It gives people a feeling of connectedness to the great beyond.
But is that necessarily a useful or a good thing?
And if these feelings are inauthentic (brain chemistry, etc) what does that say of their utility?
But, is it really inauthentic if it's brain chemistry? If it gives some a sense of eternal, or they are spiritual, because of the "god part" of their brain that doesn't mean it's "fake".
Should we pass out neurotheology pamphlets??
If it is a brain function, religion is not useful for that reason.
Oh, I agree. I wasn't connecting it to religion. Just asking whether these numinous experiences truly are "inauthentic". If some experience them within their religious environment that they're not "inauthentic". They do occur...... it's just that these experiences can have other explanations.
moksha wrote:It gives people a feeling of connectedness to the great beyond.
But is that necessarily a useful or a good thing?
And if these feelings are inauthentic (brain chemistry, etc) what does that say of their utility?
But, is it really inauthentic if it's brain chemistry? If it gives some a sense of eternal, or they are spiritual, because of the "god part" of their brain that doesn't mean it's "fake".
Should we pass out neurotheology pamphlets??
If I trip on acid it does not mean that my surroundings have been altered. Brain Chemistry cannot project itself into the corporeal world unless, for instance someone interprets the altered state and acts on what is not really there.
If someone has a spiritual experience and believes God is ordering them to kill their kids then I think religion has harmful implications. on the same side of the coin close to the edge, what of those Mormons who shun exmormons because it is part of the culture of their religion?
I sort of see your point here, and I've heard that before. I could see that if an individual was prone to numinous experiences and they connected this to some fanatical religious beliefs that great harm could possibly occur!
About the LDS and ex-LDS, I think it's horrific what is done to demonize those that left. It saddens me to see many of you called evil by people that used to be a part of your community and religion. I recoil from the implications -- that I won't go into on this thread.. :)
Sure it's useful, but then so are drugs, alcohol, television, guns, prostitutes, slot machines, and a whole pile of other things. That doesn't necessarily mean it's beneficial.
There's little doubt there are many people in the world who are addicted to religion, and use it as a distraction from things that concern them. Others use it as a justification for all kinds of actions, attitudes, beliefs, and opinions. TV evangelists use it to make crap loads of money. Religious leaders use it too control congregations. Joseph Smith used it to nail as many women as he could.
There's no doubt about its utility, but that doesn't necessarily provide any evidence for some proposed intrinsic goodness.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
I don't think there is anything inherently 'useful' that is unique to religion. It call all be found elsewhere in my opinion. Although saying that religion CAN and DOES do a good job of the things it does well. It's just the 'other stuff' that can tend to come along with it that can spoil things a lot of the time.
One thing to clarify though - I wouldn't want to dismiss all the moral teachings of people like Jesus, Ghandi etc. just because they were theists / religious people. I - as an atheist / secularist - would have no problem teaching my future kids (assuming I ever have any...!) about what they said, and what they did as a 'moral example'. I just wouldn't teach them the literal belief in the gods they believed in at the same time. (NOTE: If they want to believe in them anyway, then no problem...)
I wouldn't see it as teaching 'religion' to my kids. I'd see it as teaching 'moral lessons' from people in the past. Nothing more, nothing less.
Of course, I'd be making my own judgment about how I cherry-picked those :) But of course, they could look further into it themselves if they wanted.
Someone mentioned teaching morals in schools. Yeah, I see that as quite important, especially for the future as (in my estimation) religion is set to wane over time. I think I mentioned this a while back, in a conversation with Ray A on MADB. The difficulty is coming up with a solid moral code that could be considered 'universal' enough to be taught to everybody. That'd be tricky - but I think this should be considered a 'priority'...
As far as community, yeah - religion does that VERY well. But it can be done without it - just takes the determination.
I can think of a few examples of when it isn't so good to feel good:
You are middle aged, uneducated, lacking any ambition, and live in a trailer on your parents property. You feel good about life, because social security affords you cable, a TiVo box, and enough beer, smokes and hot dogs to get you through the month. You feel good about your life.
Perhaps a feeling of failure, inadequacy, or just feeling bad about your choices would serve as a motivation to get your butt in gear.
Add to the above scenario the feel good feeling that you'll make it to heaven because you raised your hand in some church service and were "saved".
Religion in scenario 1 - useless
A young black man, sits hopelessy inside a jail cell, wasting away.
While in jail, he reads Message to the Blackman in America and slowly begins to transform himself. He finds purpose in life, begins to educate himself, and straightens his life out. He feels good about his new found religion, and himself. He also is more inclined to think of white people as devils, and use tenets of his faith such as "The unbeliever must be stabbed through the heart" to justify violence.
Religion in scenario 2 - useless, probably dangerous
GoodK wrote:If it is a brain function, religion is not useful for that reason.
Brain functions such as the ability to count or tell time are extremely useful. The ability to feel thirst and hunger is even more useful. Saying that having a need for spiritual fullfillment is not useful, is merely denying that part of of the human condition that exists for many of us.