Non-Celestial Posts "Dynastic Marriages-Doctrinal Quest

[_Jason Bourne]

I am here for the rhetoric. I see weaknesses, I'll point them out. Just like the rest of you, but most of the rest of you hide cowardly behind your anonymous names so that no damage can really be done to you.

Isn't that the smart thing to do?

I suppose one could be braver and perhaps one day I will be and Bob will get his wish. Then perhaps the Church I still care about will boot me out or maybe it will tolerate me. The thing Bob does not note is the Church fosters this really. It uses fear to keep dissenters and even honest and open questions under wrap.
Sure one can believe whatever they want, have questions, doubts, and so on. One can discuss it with their leaders but cannot bring it up in Sunday School or really even in private conversations with other members. It they did they would be causing dissent, be considered in a state of apostasy and threatened with discipline. This potential action threatens emotional well being, ones social circle and one reputation and standing in the Church community and even more than that depending on the demographics where one lives. Additionally it threatens one's family well being. If one spouse has become disillusioned and the other has not and the one who has doubts is vocal and disciplined the other spouses reputation may also be tainted. Certainly the marriage will be stressed and could be put in jeopardy. Relationships with children Questioning doctrine, practice and policy in any public way, even on a message board for Bob where interaction in limited, is really taboo.


So one must weigh the costs. Bob really does have some valid points. But it is the stance he takes as well as the threat of action by the Church that creates this conundrum. Oh sure the doubter does too. One could argue that if they did not doubt but stuck to the party line there would be no issue. But for many there was really not a omniscience choice to end up where they are. And many are extremely distressed that all they built their life on seems not to be what they thought it was.

Some leave, some stay and do the best they can. And some still find great value and enjoy filling their spiritual life. Bob has a problem with that apparently but really that is his problem. And it is his opinion and all do not share it. Certainly my leaders do not. In Bob's realm of ecclesiastical authority as long as he has it it does mean something to those in his congregation. He can discipline those whom he has stewardship over. But he has none over me and those who do are aware of where I am at. And yes they know I discuss some of these things on a message board but no Bob, I have nor shared with them specific post.

So after all is said and done Bob can continue to bring this up and hammer away at it. As I have thought a lot about this over the past few days and actually let it cause me some consternation I have realized that it Bob's view on this is really not important to me in the overall scheme at least as far as resigning or not. It in none of his business. I have asked him in a PM and in open to stop badgering me about this. Whether he choses to do so or not is up to him. But I am not going to sweat it.

Bob, I will say that we all know this is an important issue to you. But to continually bring it up over and over is really tiresome. We know how you feel. Why not drop it now and just discuss the issues that you feel are worth debating?

Thanks!

[_Yoda]

He(Bob) can discipline those whom he has stewardship over. But he has none over me and those who do are aware of where I am at.

Exactly. You are doing what is right in YOUR circumstance and following counsel by YOUR leaders. You're a sweetheart, Jason.

Don't let Bob, or anyone else here try to bully you into doing something that you know in your heart is wrong.

[_Runtu]

He(Bob) can discipline those whom he has stewardship over. But he has none over me and those who do are aware of where I am at.

Exactly. You are doing what is right in YOUR circumstance and following counsel by YOUR leaders. You're a sweetheart, Jason.

Don't let Bob, or anyone else here try to bully you into doing something that you know in your heart is wrong.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Each one of us must find our own way through life, and as long as we follow our conscience, we have nothing to be ashamed of.

[_the road to hana]

I am here for the rhetoric. I see weaknesses, I'll point them out. Just like the rest of you, but most of the rest of you hide cowardly behind your anonymous names so that no damage can really be done to you.

Isn't that the smart thing to do?

As has been pointed out to Bob on numerous occasions.

He posted here anonymously initially, under several different screennames. It's been clearly demonstrated to him that he has enough real life information available online that in a matter of minutes, one can find his work bio and address, his home address (and current appraised value), his ward address and current meeting schedule, and even a list of his (and his wife's) contributions to various political campaigns.

He seems to be very uncomfortable with this, but lashes out at anonymous posters regardless. It borders on pathology.

Untrue in all respects, but I am just repeating myself everytime you make claims about my posting history.

Shades asks whether it is "safer" to post anonymously. Yes, just as it is safer for a grafitti tagger to do it at night. Or a rapist to use a mask. The night and the mask are cowards' devices to wreak malice.

Here is my resume: link to resume
Here is one of my cases: link to case

I do not and never have hidden who I am. I may be uncomfortable with you posting my kids names -- one as young as six -- and then seeing board members make vulgar references to them -- Blixa in particular -- but oh well.

rcrocket

1) You posted as "Lee Bishop," "Bishop Lee," and a number of other anonymous screennames before posting under your current one of "rcrocket," which more closely approximates your real name.

2) In posting links to your bio on your law firm's website, you are only opening yourself, and your family, up to invasion of privacy, as has been noted.

3) I have never posted your children's names. You must have me confused with someone else.

4) I did ask you several months ago whether your graduation status from BYU was correct (noted then as "summa cum laude"), and you responded that it was an error, and changed it.


5) I'm concerned with your abilities as an attorney. If what I said above were "untrue in all respects," then it would have to be untrue that:

*You ever posted anonymously on this board. Many can attest to the fact.

*It's been clearly demonstrated to you that you have significant in real life information available online which can be accessed in a matter of minutes once someone knows your real name, which you seem happy to provide (as well as your law firm's website). The only way this could be untrue is for you to have impaired intelligence.

*You are uncomfortable with people accessing or knowing your in real life information online. For this to be untrue, you'd have to stop complaining about it.

*You lash out at anonymous posters. This is well attested, including in the post above.

*This borders on pathology. Indeed, your concern with anonymous posters on this board is obsessive.

[_the road to hana]

[I do not and never have hidden who I am. I may be uncomfortable with you posting my kids names -- one as young as six -- and then seeing board members make vulgar references to them -- Blixa in particular -- but oh well.

I have never made any reference, vulgar or otherwise to this poster's children. He has often accused beastie of doing so; perhaps this is some kind of slip or typo. Either way its a gross mistake.

This is a pretty serious accusation, Bob.

I have known Blixa for some time, and she is not the type of person to do something like that. Please point out the post where this occurred.

She didn't. He's again confusing posters in making allegations, something he's done with both me and beastie in the past, and now Blixa.

[_Yoda]

She didn't. He's again confusing posters in making allegations, something he's done with both me and beastie in the past, and now Blixa.

I don't believe she did, either. But if Bob has a specific post in mind, I'm more than happy to look at it.

We take this stuff seriously, Bob. Insulting and outting board members or board family members, particularly kids, crosses a HUGE line.

Shades, himself, the founder of this board, has been a victim of this, and is VERY sensitive to it. I have also been a victim of Internet stalking, which is why I post anonymously.

In order for us, as Moderators to act, though, we need SPECIFIC information. If you are unwilling to provide us that information, then basically, I think you are just whining to hear yourself whine.

I'm not saying this to be mean. If you feel you are being stalked or that your family is in jeopardy, I want to see you get the help you need. I have told you this many times, and I stand by it.

But YOU have to meet us half-way, and thus far, you have not done that.

[_Jason Bourne]

.

Here is my resume: link to resume
Here is one of my cases: link to case

Hey Bob

You are a good lookin fellow. You look like a nice guy. Much nicer than your avatar here!

[_Runtu]

Hey Bob

You are a good lookin fellow. You look like a nice guy. Much nicer than your avatar here!

Remember the wise words of Neil Anderson of the Seventy: “Beware of the evil behind the smiling eyes.” ;)

I was thinking that Bob's picture does make him look like a nice guy. Who knew? :)

[_BishopRic]

I will say something maybe a tad applicable here. I've known many BIC LDS members who have transitioned out. I don't know one who has done it without some time with one foot in and one foot out. It is natural to be confused about what to do with the new information we have.

Sometimes the conflict leads to depression and other problems. When one's moral compass breaks down, it is unclear what is "right and wrong."

I don't know a single person that woke up one day and said "the church is not true, so I will now resign my membership and become an atheist -- let the chips fall as they will."

If Bob has that type of personality that he would/could do that, so be it. In my experience, he would be the first.

Until then, I think we should all have some compassion for those who are struggling with how to incorporate the good of the church with the bad. I definitely am not in a position to judge another for their choice...don't know why one would think they are!

[_rcrocket]

Again, to Mr. Hana: Untrue. I have explained it all before.