Dynasitc Marriages-Doctrinal Question

[_Brackite]

Wow, Brackite! Thank you for all of the scriptural references! I think that is why, as a believing LDS, this issue has been so confusing to me.

The "get out of jail free card" that is always trumped is Jacob 2:30:

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

What are your thoughts regarding this scripture?

Hi There Liz,

The Lord God intends to command His People in order to raise up seed unto Him. This is really meaning raising up seed unto the Lord. It can and will be done through Monogamy. The Lord God intends to raise up seed unto Him, through Monogamy, NOT Polygamy, as can be seen when comparing Jacob 2:30 to 1 Nephi 7:1, and then correctly comparing 1 Nephi 7:1 to 1 Nephi 16:7-8. Here is again 1 Nephi 7:1 Compared to, to 1 Nephi 16:7-8:

1 Nephi 7:

[1] And now I would that ye might know, that after my father, Lehi, had made an end of prophesying concerning his seed, it came to pass that the Lord spake unto him again, saying that it was not meet for him, Lehi, that he should take his family into the wilderness alone; but that his sons should take daughters to wife, that they might raise up seed unto the Lord in the land of promise.


1 Nephi 16:

[7] And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the daughters of Ishmael to wife; and also, my brethren took of the daughters of Ishmael to wife; and also Zoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

[8] And thus my father had fulfilled all the commandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

Now, Here is the Special Link to my Whole Exegesis and Commentary on Jacob Chapter Two and Jacob Chapter Three, particularly Jacob 2:30, on the Zion Lighthouse Message Board:

http://p094.ezboard.com/Reading-Jacob-C ... =415.topic

[_skippy the dead]

Harmony and others say that Jesus specifically condemned plural marriage and yet there is not statement anywhere in the New Testament where He said any such thing. And although it is not official doctrine I believe that Jesus lived in a plural marriage. People who know the cultural practices of the day say that His relationship with Mary and Martha could not be explained except as that of husband and wives.

Who? Come on now... who says this? Give me two current LDS persons and one non LDS person who really knows about these things.

The link below is to a modern Christian polygamy movement. They are not LDS Check it out.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/polygame.html

I'll freely admit that my reading comprehension may be poor today, but where in that page does it say that Jesus was polygamously married to Mary and Martha? I see no such thing, and I think that was the thrust of the original question.

[_Jersey Girl]

I know this will be off topic but...

charity

Harmony and others say that Jesus specifically condemned plural marriage and yet there is not statement anywhere in the New Testament where He said any such thing.

There are also no statements from Jesus anywhere in the Bible specifically condemning homosexual activity.

[_charity]

Harmony and others say that Jesus specifically condemned plural marriage and yet there is not statement anywhere in the New Testament where He said any such thing. And although it is not official doctrine I believe that Jesus lived in a plural marriage. People who know the cultural practices of the day say that His relationship with Mary and Martha could not be explained except as that of husband and wives.

Who? Come on now... who says this? Give me two current LDS persons and one non LDS person who really knows about these things.

The link below is to a modern Christian polygamy movement. They are not LDS Check it out.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/polygame.html

I'll freely admit that my reading comprehension may be poor today, but where in that page does it say that Jesus was polygamously married to Mary and Martha? I see no such thing, and I think that was the thrust of the original question.

Darrell Bock, professor of theology at Dallas Theological seminary wrote: Dr. Bock does not believe that Jesus was married, but still he says, "This includes the woman with the alabaster container who anointed Jesus (read Luke 7:36-50). This woman's act was shocking and would not have been nearly so surprising had she been his wife."

Read the following link "Was Jesus Married?"

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/127/story_12776_3.html

It mentions many different groups, scholars, who believe there is evidence that Jesus was married. The Gospel of Mary particularly.

[_skippy the dead]

Harmony and others say that Jesus specifically condemned plural marriage and yet there is not statement anywhere in the New Testament where He said any such thing. And although it is not official doctrine I believe that Jesus lived in a plural marriage. People who know the cultural practices of the day say that His relationship with Mary and Martha could not be explained except as that of husband and wives.

Who? Come on now... who says this? Give me two current LDS persons and one non LDS person who really knows about these things.

The link below is to a modern Christian polygamy movement. They are not LDS Check it out.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/polygame.html

I'll freely admit that my reading comprehension may be poor today, but where in that page does it say that Jesus was polygamously married to Mary and Martha? I see no such thing, and I think that was the thrust of the original question.

Darrell Bock, professor of theology at Dallas Theological seminary wrote: Dr. Bock does not believe that Jesus was married, but still he says, "This includes the woman with the alabaster container who anointed Jesus (read Luke 7:36-50). This woman's act was shocking and would not have been nearly so surprising had she been his wife."

Read the following link "Was Jesus Married?"

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/127/story_12776_3.html

It mentions many different groups, scholars, who believe there is evidence that Jesus was married. The Gospel of Mary particularly.

I'm familiar with the theory that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene, but where do we have anything to support your statement from above:

And although it is not official doctrine I believe that Jesus lived in a plural marriage. People who know the cultural practices of the day say that His relationship with Mary and Martha could not be explained except as that of husband and wives.

[_harmony]

And where Harmony and I differ is that I say it is very plainly in the Doctrine and Covenants that God did command. And they were blessed. Persecuted, but blessed. Blessings aren't just in having quiet, peaceful lives. Blessings are in spiritual growth, which very often does not come with an easy life.

No, actually I think the D&C pretty clearly shows that the Abomination was all Joseph's idea.

And they were not blessed. They lost their prophet, their homes, their livelihood, their families, their lives. They were banished to the wilderness. They suffered horribly. God did not answer their prayers for relief. And why? Because they allowed themselves to be duped into following a lie. Abomination lived among them, stealing their virtue. They took a viper to their bosoms and nurtured a snake. Only after the Abomination was forced out were they able to stablize and prosper.

God will not be mocked.

[_harmony]

Harmony and others say that Jesus specifically condemned plural marriage and yet there is not statement anywhere in the New Testament where He said any such thing.

I realize we're difficult to keep straight, but I do not recall ever making this argument, at least not on this thread. Could you document that please?

[_truth dancer]

Mark: 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

Not wives, not concubines, not other women... WIFE. Singular.

The rationalization that Jesus means only one wife at a time is just silliness.

1 Cor 7: 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

A husband is to have his own wife.

A wife is to have her own husband.

Unambiguous.

No multiple women, no harem, no adultery, no anything other than one husband and one wife without others.

People can twist and contort anything in the Bible to excuse and justify anything. However, the teachings in the New Testament make it abundantly clear that monogamy, without exception was taught by Christ.

Charity writes,

Harmony and others say that Jesus specifically condemned plural marriage and yet there is not statement anywhere in the New Testament where He said any such thing.

In the Book of Mormon, Jesus stated clearly and unambiguously that a man having multiple wives was an abomination and breaks the hearts of his daughters.

Yes, according to the Book of Mormon, Jesus condemns polygamy. Clearly.

~dancer~

[_Jason Bourne]

Hey Jason...

Earlier I wrote,

" Christ (if one believes in the Book of Mormon... smile), clearly states having multiple wives is an "abomination" and breaks the hearts of His daughters.

So unless God is a REALLY cruel father, why would He need to break the hearts of His daughters with such an abomination in order to "raise up seed."

It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

The interpretation that God allows polygamy to raise up seed seems to somehow assume some magical idea that women will all of a sudden not have their hearts broken if their husbands sleep with other women and they no longer have a beautiful exclusive partnership with their husbands as Christ taught. Of course this is nonsense.

While I always allow for some adults to enjoy alternative relationships, it seems clear to me that during the early days of the church the hearts of many, many women were broken."

So, Christ is clear that taking wives and concubines breaks the hearts of his daughters, and he clearly states it is an abomination.

Tell me, what sort of God requires an abomination and the breaking hearts of his daughters to raise up seed?

This makes no sense to me unless God is a sick, cruel, weak, misogynist. (Which of course certainly may be if one is to believe the Old Testament).

~dancer~

I think the conflict is a potential conundrum, yes. But I don't see how one can read the verse any other way than GOd may allow polygamy. But yes, your logic makes sense.

[_the road to hana]

You say Jesus clearly taught marriage was between one man and one woman. I have asked repeated: Show me those plain and clear teachings. I will accept any New Testament scripture that says this. Oh, not your interpretation of a scripture, but Jesus' actual words, as you say there are such.

You'll find them in the 19th Chapter of Matthew.

You mean this: Matt 19: 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

This does not limit a man to one marriage. That is your interpretation.

No. Verse 9.

Charity, a question. Do you think that Jesus Christ ever in his mortal ministry preached to anyone that they should have more than one wife? And if so, why do you think it is lost from current scripture?

Wouldn't early Christians continue the practice if he had taught it, even clandestinely?