What is Mormonism's Ultimate Punishment?

[_unwell3398]

I was always taught that apostates to the church were as good as going to Outer Darkness. I know many who were taught this, and many who were not. That's one problem I've had with the church. Teachings are not consistent, prophets and leaders will not clarify all issues, and the scriptures are fairly open to interpretation, which doesn't help when you're told to turn there. People in all ranks get different messages from the same verse!

That's what that handy Holy Ghost thing is for.

OK....so when the prophet of the church doesn't even know, and everyone who feels the "Holy Ghost" has different reactions to what is read or how they feel....what's true? I don't understand why mediocracy is considered acceptable.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Permanent hell is accessible only to those who deny the Holy Ghost.

.

And murder???

So then people who have taken oaths and fulfilled them when not keeping their side have killed themselves, should they go to outer darknes on behalf of murder and wow, breaking the quirkiest commandments around?

[_The Nehor]

I was always taught that apostates to the church were as good as going to Outer Darkness. I know many who were taught this, and many who were not. That's one problem I've had with the church. Teachings are not consistent, prophets and leaders will not clarify all issues, and the scriptures are fairly open to interpretation, which doesn't help when you're told to turn there. People in all ranks get different messages from the same verse!

That's what that handy Holy Ghost thing is for.

OK....so when the prophet of the church doesn't even know, and everyone who feels the "Holy Ghost" has different reactions to what is read or how they feel....what's true? I don't understand why mediocracy is considered acceptable.

The Prophet might know. Whether he can tell us or not is up to God.

You see, God tells his secrets to the ones who study, learn, and live what he's told them to do. That's the reward he gives them.

There have always been some members who have no idea how to understand the Holy Ghost or even recognize it and claim it anyways. Not my problem. How does God revealing his teachings only to those ready for them exalt mediocrity? Your demand that every doctrine be hammered to perfection in the sight of all so any jackass off the street can understand the whole gospel is a call for more mediocrity.

[_Coggins7]

OK....so when the prophet of the church doesn't even know, and everyone who feels the "Holy Ghost" has different reactions to what is read or how they feel....what's true? I don't understand why mediocracy is considered acceptable.

Who's having all these "different reactions"? What do you mean by "different reactions" The Holy Ghost unifies a people who are tuned and calibrated to receive his teachings and influence. He teaches the same thing to all, in the sense of general principles, in the context of the Restored Gospel.

Dissension and confusion, as our scriptures make clear, is of Satan, not of God.

[_Coggins7]

There have always been some members who have no idea how to understand the Holy Ghost or even recognize it and claim it anyways. Not my problem. How does God revealing his teachings only to those ready for them exalt mediocrity? Your demand that every doctrine be hammered to perfection in the sight of all so any jackass off the street can understand the whole gospel is a call for more mediocrity.

Great reply Nehor, thanks.

[_unwell3398]

If the prophet does know, my good sir, then he has lied to us all. So have any other men and women supposedly of God. How many times have opinions announced as doctrines changed? How many times did Hinckley and others say "I don't know that we teach that," or full out claim we didn't believe in something we did?

To dive into the "different reactions" question....how in the world can you say confusion and dissenssion is of satan? The Mormon church has changed many of its teachings over the years, and numerous leaders of the church have said conflicting statements. By your simplistic statement you are accusing your own leaders and prophets of being misled by satan.

Different prophets over the years have had different takes on what church policy should be, what was meant by a scripture, and so forth. These men are supposed to be some of the most in-tune men with the holy spirit in the world. If that is true, why the changes? And also, supposedly men are supposed to be able to pray and feel the holy spirit and administer over their families. It is not only for those in the top ranks; who are you to say they do not deserve the truth? What if they are righteous men who have done all that you say?

And why is asking for clarification on doctrines wrong? Why is asking for a simple answer to so many questions wrong?

[_The Nehor]

And why is asking for clarification on doctrines wrong? Why is asking for a simple answer to so many questions wrong?

Something in the scriptures about taking no thought but to ask.......might want to begin your investigation there.

[_antishock8]

And why is asking for clarification on doctrines wrong? Why is asking for a simple answer to so many questions wrong?

Something in the scriptures about taking no thought but to ask.......might want to begin your investigation there.

You, good Sir, are impervious to reason. Well done. Well done.

[_Coggins7]

The Nehor wrote:

unwell3398 wrote:

And why is asking for clarification on doctrines wrong? Why is asking for a simple answer to so many questions wrong?



Something in the scriptures about taking no thought but to ask.......might want to begin your investigation there.

You, good Sir, are impervious to reason. Well done. Well done.

Ran away from that as fast as you could didn't you?

Need I ask why that may have been?

[_Coggins7]

If the prophet does know, my good sir, then he has lied to us all. So have any other men and women supposedly of God. How many times have opinions announced as doctrines changed? How many times did Hinckley and others say "I don't know that we teach that," or full out claim we didn't believe in something we did?

Opinions taught in an authoritative tone have changed. Doctrinal explanations taught in an authoritative tone have changed. True doctrines and practices, taught through the authority of the Holy Ghost, have also been changed or modified (Jesus Christ himself presided over the end of the ritual life of Israel and the Law of Moses, subsumed as they were in the New and Everlasting Covenant). What never changes are the principles. Core doctrines of the Church have never changed (although they have been added to and hence, expanded and amplified). Latter Day Saints believe in the same principles and doctrines they, as a people, have always believed in, even though they do not practice or apply all of them at the present time. We need not, of course, still believe in theological speculations or explanations that were never official doctrine in the first instance.

General authorities have had differing opinions of course, but they are always unanimous on the core, settled doctrines and practices of the Gospel.

And why is asking for clarification on doctrines wrong? Why is asking for a simple answer to so many questions wrong?

Who on earth is saying it is?