Oh Those Missionaries!

[Guest]

This type of nit-wittery---mocking other religions---is fairly common in missions in majority Catholic countries.

Come to think of it, this would be very odd indeed, given the degree to which respect for the religions of others is deeply inculcated into us from childhood, in our scriptures, the writings of the General Authorities, and in our Gospel Doctrine classes. It would be a rank departure from accepted teachings. I have heard missionaries express some immature and insular attitudes about other religions, but his has been the exception, in my experience.

... the writings of the General Authorities ...

Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.

the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century

Is it enough?


... attitudes about other religions ...
I have heard "missionaries express some immature and insular attitudes about other religions". It may be true, maybe not.
What I have seen was:
Missionaries in Debrecen, Hungary have walked and spread the Book of Mormon again and again before the "Great Temple of Debrecen" which is kind of emblem of that town, the "Calvinist Rome".
OK, that is a public space. And that is a public space before and after the sunday celebration (the equivalent of the mass in RCism). And there is decency, not taught in MTCs.

[_the road to hana]

What do you expect? The MTC mob mentality does not teach respect or tolerance for other faiths.

Yes, in fact we do, more than most religions, in point of fact.

This, I take, is not a good example of it.

Is it actually raw, naked stupidity at work with you two, or just irrational, juvenile bigotry?

Are you talking to the pictures again?

[_ludwigm]

And let me be clear, I don't necessarily mean moral problems. Pride, intellectual arrogance and humanistic self sufficiency, shallow materialism, and the materialist self absorption of an affluent, decadent cultural ethos, is as much "sin" as is adultery or breaking the WoW, and just as much a "reason' to find the Church untrue as is justification for moral or ethical weaknesses.

Please, help You all! Could anybody explain me that expression? Even You, Cog?
I know all the words, I have dictionary, wikipedia, answers.com - purposeless.
Does make sense that sentence or it is only my insufficient english knowledge?

[_It occurs to me . . .]

This type of nit-wittery---mocking other religions---is fairly common in missions in majority Catholic countries.

Come to think of it, this would be very odd indeed, given the degree to which respect for the religions of others is deeply inculcated into us from childhood, in our scriptures, the writings of the General Authorities, and in our Gospel Doctrine classes. It would be a rank departure from accepted teachings. I have heard missionaries express some immature and insular attitudes about other religions, but his has been the exception, in my experience.

Coggins apparently thinks all missionaries would behave the same based on their "respect for the religions of others is deeply inculcated into us from childhood" when his own reaction to the same anti drinking teachings from childhood are different than most members. This alone should demonstrate that the teachings of the church are not internalized the same by all members. Especially when it comes to missionaries, there is such a huge diversity of personalities, and experience in the church, I really don't see how anyone could seriously suggest that this would never happen. It really does reflect on the one making the absurd assertion.

I'm sure that most missionaries would try to avoid something like this, but I know from personal experience that this kind of behavior is far from uncommon. Harmony talked about eating sacred swans for thanksgiving in Japan, while I have never heard that one, I did serve my mission in Japan. One P day, we were climbing a mountain, there were two groups, the ZLs and two others were quite a ways ahead of us, we were back with a group of 6-8, including two sisters. When we came to the top of the mountain, we found a little shrine to the local Shinto God. There was a little statue in it, and it was all wet around the area. As there had been no rain, it was a little strange. I think we guessed what had happened, but with the sisters there, avoided talking about it. When we caught up with the ZLs, the senior ZL was bragging about how he had pissed on their God and the God had done nothing to him. He was going on and on in a joking manner of how weak their Gods were. I was fairly fresh out of the MTC with our "Culture classes" etc. and didn't really know how to react. It was a lesson for me though, I vowed I would never mock another's beliefs like that. One of the sister missionaries was Japanese, and she had figured out what had happened. I think it was really shocking for her to see a "priesthood leader" act in such a juvenile way.

The elder who did this was no dummy, he was on leave from Princeton where he was apparently in the top of his class. I know that most elder's are just dumb 19 year-olds, but even given that, there are many . . . too many who go way over the line of innocent joking. We had another set of elders who went out one night and killed a dog that had been barking all night for a few days. This was all back in the early 80's.

*edited to add: The elders who killed the dog DID take pictures of it, and bragged about it on a few occasions, but on the other hand, they were both obvioulsy idiot elders, and no one was too surprised. (in contrast to the ZL I mentioned). The only surprising thing was that the MP put them together in a two man apartment!

[_harmony]

. Harmony talked about eating sacred swans for thanksgiving in Japan, while I have never heard that one, I did serve my mission in Japan.

Shades can give the fullest account. Mine is merely second hand, from my son who served in the same mission as Shades, although not at the same time. It seems there were two elders who were homesick, it being Thanksgiving time and all. They saw the swans and decided they'd make a nice Thanksgiving dinner. I'm not sure if they knew before or were told after they'd killed them that the swans were sacred. In any case, there was a huge hullabaloo, they were deported (assigned to stateside missions, I believe) and the church was very embarrasssed.

[_Coggins7]

Coggins apparently thinks all missionaries would behave the same based on their "respect for the religions of others is deeply inculcated into us from childhood" when his own reaction to the same anti drinking teachings from childhood are different than most members. This alone should demonstrate that the teachings of the church are not internalized the same by all members. Especially when it comes to missionaries, there is such a huge diversity of personalities, and experience in the church, I really don't see how anyone could seriously suggest that this would never happen. It really does reflect on the one making the absurd assertion.

They were not different in the slightest. I'm just going to let this go by because the poster here has not the faintest idea what they are talking about. Although I chose to take my first drink, under extreme emotional conditions, I did not choose to become addicted to alcohol, nor have the beliefs and attitudes toward its use, since being internalized as a child, changed one little bit (even though my beliefs regarding addiction have changed).

Moving right along...

[_Chap]

Coggins apparently thinks all missionaries would behave the same based on their "respect for the religions of others is deeply inculcated into us from childhood" when his own reaction to the same anti drinking teachings from childhood are different than most members. This alone should demonstrate that the teachings of the church are not internalized the same by all members. Especially when it comes to missionaries, there is such a huge diversity of personalities, and experience in the church, I really don't see how anyone could seriously suggest that this would never happen. It really does reflect on the one making the absurd assertion.

They were not different in the slightest. I'm just going to let this go by because the poster here has not the faintest idea what they are talking about. Although I chose to take my first drink, under extreme emotional conditions, I did not choose to become addicted to alcohol, nor have the beliefs and attitudes toward its use, since being internalized as a child, changed one little bit (even though my beliefs regarding addiction have changed).

Moving right along...

A rather loose syllogism:

It is a good thing that at some time in the past this poster has evidently referred to his alcoholism, since his doing so will almost certainly increase the likelihood that other alcoholics reading his posts (and the families of those alcoholics) will in turn feel able to acknowledge and confront their problem.

Anything that suggests to alcoholics that being open about their problem will lead to mockery is a bad thing.

Therefore I think it is a bad thing that people have from time to time mocked this poster because he has stated he is an alcoholic, and I think it would be a good thing for them to stop doing so.

[_Dr. Shades]

. Harmony talked about eating sacred swans for thanksgiving in Japan, while I have never heard that one, I did serve my mission in Japan.

Shades can give the fullest account. Mine is merely second hand, from my son who served in the same mission as Shades, although not at the same time.

One of the perpetrators was a former companion of mine. It took place when I was still there, but it was rather hush-hush. I didn't hear the details about it until he told me over the phone after the mission was over.

[_bcspace]

I'm not surprised at the actions of the elders.

Would you be shocked and saddened to learn that I drew a heart with my name and the girl-who-was-waiting-for-me's name inside it on a support column for the Hollywood sign before a police helicopter chased me and my companion (I forget what he wrote) down?

If they haven't re-coated those columns in 20 years or so, you might be able to see my name on the first or second column from the main trail approaching from the east. ;)

by the way, that same girl is now my wife.

There is also a famous underground video we made parodying missionary life (and mocking the AP's) to the scenes and music of Top Gun? I hear it's still a cult classic (pun intended) in certain circles......

[_Yoda]

I'm not surprised at the actions of the elders.

Would you be shocked and saddened to learn that I drew a heart with my name and the girl-who-was-waiting-for-me's name inside it on a support column for the Hollywood sign before a police helicopter chased me and my companion (I forget what he wrote) down?

If they haven't re-coated those columns in 20 years or so, you might be able to see my name on the first or second column from the main trail approaching from the east. ;)

by the way, that same girl is now my wife.

There is also a famous underground video we made parodying missionary life (and mocking the AP's) to the scenes and music of Top Gun? I hear it's still a cult classic (pun intended) in certain circles......

You're such a rebel. I'm liking you more and more. LOL