Oh Those Missionaries!

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_BishopRic
_Emeritus
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:59 pm

Post by _BishopRic »

Coggins7 wrote:
BishopRic wrote:
Coggins7 wrote:

Addiction is a syndrome; a set of symptoms in the form of behaviors, thoughts, ideations, and attitudes, in other words, complex human behavior.


Coggins, I'll just throw this out. I don't expect a positive response, but in the .1% chance you are interested in help, I am an addictions counselor. If you want help, let me know.


Thanks. I have a LDS sponsored meeting here, and two online forums, also LDS. But thanks for the offer.


Recovery is never easy. Been there, done that. Good luck to you.
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Post by _Mercury »

Coggins7 wrote:
BishopRic wrote:
Coggins7 wrote:

Addiction is a syndrome; a set of symptoms in the form of behaviors, thoughts, ideations, and attitudes, in other words, complex human behavior.


Coggins, I'll just throw this out. I don't expect a positive response, but in the .1% chance you are interested in help, I am an addictions counselor. If you want help, let me know.


Thanks. I have a LDS sponsored meeting here, and two online forums, also LDS. But thanks for the offer.


So...what? does the LDS group get together and flog each other, wondering why they are evil sinners that will never be right with god?
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_Mike Reed
_Emeritus
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:28 pm

Post by _Mike Reed »

Alter Idem wrote:
Mike Reed wrote:On my mission a few elders had asked me to take a picture of them as they posed disrespectively on religious statues. I also remember seeing other disrespectful pictures that were similar. My observation has been that this kind of behavior is not uncommin in the LDS Church. But I severely doubt that the missionary broke the head on purpose. I suspect that it was broken accidentally... maybe while sitting on the head for a pose.


I think you could be right--if they did break the head, I expect it was accidental. They also could have found the head already broken off.


True. But this possibility seems to have been undermined by the title of the picture in photobucket... as well as a couple of the recent statements that have come forth.

As I mentioned, it doesn't matter because they're going to be blamed for it anyway--and the church has paid for the repairs to try and make some amends. I'm sure these kinds of antics are not uncommon among young missionaries. Hopefully this incident and the negative press will help curb these antics.


Yeah. The embarrassment could have similar results as those that followed the Mormon Doctrine 1st edition publication. In the end... I think this is going to be very healthy for the Church. So far... the Church has responded "perfectly" to this incident (in my view). I just feel a little sad for those who are getting the heat of the trouble now. Not that I think what they did was ok. It is just that these three missionaries are gonna be the scapegoat for a behavior that has long existed in the Church.

The three will be facing church discipline--one was still serving in the mission and was sent home. Can you imagine the humiliation of having to return home because you were goofing around?


Yeah. And to think that this returning missionary was probably the Jr companion who was being "trained" at the time. The Milgram Experiment comes to mind.

I'm sure they did not think of the serious offense they were committing against another faith. The other two will probably be called in by their Bishops this week. Also, the Parish wants to press charges. We'll have to see what develops.


Yeah. We'll see. This is very interesting.
_Alter Idem
_Emeritus
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:24 pm

Post by _Alter Idem »

Mike Reed wrote:
Alter Idem wrote:
Mike Reed wrote:On my mission a few elders had asked me to take a picture of them as they posed disrespectively on religious statues. I also remember seeing other disrespectful pictures that were similar. My observation has been that this kind of behavior is not uncommin in the LDS Church. But I severely doubt that the missionary broke the head on purpose. I suspect that it was broken accidentally... maybe while sitting on the head for a pose.


I think you could be right--if they did break the head, I expect it was accidental. They also could have found the head already broken off.


True. But this possibility seems to have been undermined by the title of the picture in photobucket... as well as a couple of the recent statements that have come forth.

As I mentioned, it doesn't matter because they're going to be blamed for it anyway--and the church has paid for the repairs to try and make some amends. I'm sure these kinds of antics are not uncommon among young missionaries. Hopefully this incident and the negative press will help curb these antics.


Yeah. The embarrassment could have similar results as those that followed the Mormon Doctrine 1st edition publication. In the end... I think this is going to be very healthy for the Church. So far... the Church has responded "perfectly" to this incident (in my view). I just feel a little sad for those who are getting the heat of the trouble now. Not that I think what they did was ok. It is just that these three missionaries are gonna be the scapegoat for a behavior that has long existed in the Church.

The three will be facing church discipline--one was still serving in the mission and was sent home. Can you imagine the humiliation of having to return home because you were goofing around?


Yeah. And to think that this returning missionary was probably the Jr companion who was being "trained" at the time. The Milgram Experiment comes to mind.

I'm sure they did not think of the serious offense they were committing against another faith. The other two will probably be called in by their Bishops this week. Also, the Parish wants to press charges. We'll have to see what develops.


Yeah. We'll see. This is very interesting.


Mike, I agree. I did not want to think that they would hve broken it intentionally, but they may have. Especially with the swift disciplining.

Yesterday morning this was being discussed on a local talk show here in Salt Lake. I sent an E-mail saying that I thought the missionaries should face church discipline for their actions--because this had generated such negative publicity, I felt the church would have to make examples of them. The talk show host read my email on the air and castigated me for being so harsh and judgemental of these missionaries--he didn't think their actions warranted church discipline and he reminded his audience that I was a "female"--so I shouldn't even dare to suggest what Priesthood leaders should do about this. I must admit, I felt vindicated when I read later that all three faced church discipline.

I'm very sorry for these three--I hate to think that a thoughtless, stupid act could bring such disaster to them and to others. Unfortunately, I'm sure their actions are not out of the ordinary. They were out on their P-day and saw an opportunity to take some "funny" pictures. I'm sure that's how they saw it. The big mistake was posting them publicly. Others have done stuff like that, but haven't gotten caught. But this was too public to ignore or be lenient.

Like you, I think this could be a good thing. I think this brings to the forefront the problem of disrespect for other religions. I hope that even though this will be a hard and humiliating experience for all involved, I hope it can help relations between the two faiths in that area and raise the sensitivity of missionary leaders to discouraging this kind of attitude and behavior.
_Mike Reed
_Emeritus
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:28 pm

Post by _Mike Reed »

Alter Idem wrote:Yesterday morning this was being discussed on a local talk show here in Salt Lake. I sent an E-mail saying that I thought the missionaries should face church discipline for their actions--because this had generated such negative publicity, I felt the church would have to make examples of them. The talk show host read my email on the air and castigated me for being so harsh and judgemental of these missionaries--he didn't think their actions warranted church discipline and he reminded his audience that I was a "female"--so I shouldn't even dare to suggest what Priesthood leaders should do about this. I must admit, I felt vindicated when I read later that all three faced church discipline.


They took issue with you being "female"? Oh my. That is very unfortunate.

--Mike [who has just learned that you are not the Gender that he imagined you to be :)]
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Post by _moksha »

Alter Idem wrote: The talk show host read my email on the air and castigated me for being so harsh and judgemental of these missionaries--he didn't think their actions warranted church discipline and he reminded his audience that I was a "female"--so I shouldn't even dare to suggest what Priesthood leaders should do about this.


Out of curiousity, what was the talk show and who was the host? Sounds like a maroon.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Post by _beastie »

Y'all a bunch of dirty exmos. (and if you could have seen my companions, you would not be making sexual innuendos about threesomes!)
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Alter Idem
_Emeritus
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:24 pm

Post by _Alter Idem »

moksha wrote:
Alter Idem wrote: The talk show host read my email on the air and castigated me for being so harsh and judgemental of these missionaries--he didn't think their actions warranted church discipline and he reminded his audience that I was a "female"--so I shouldn't even dare to suggest what Priesthood leaders should do about this.


Out of curiousity, what was the talk show and who was the host? Sounds like a maroon.


It was the Bob Lonsberry program here in Salt Lake--570 AM. Hey, they have podcasts if you want to listen to him read my email in it's entirety and then chew me out! Go to KNRS.com and programming--Bob Lonsberry show--then you'll find each day's program available for listening to. It was monday's program and it was in the very last 5 minutes of the show so it's easy to skip to the end to hear it.

Mike, I'm not surprised you thought I was male--many posters think that. I may have been too touchy about his comments, but I really felt that he was making a point to his listeners of saying I was female so they would understand tacitly that as a female, I don't hold the priesthood and I had no business giving my opinion on priesthood matters like church courts.


If anyone does listen to it, let me know if I was just being overly sensitive at his comments of me as a female and if my email sounded as harsh and judgemental as he seemed to take it.
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Post by _beastie »

No, not really. Pay Lay Ale has not been spoken in the Temple for an age. There was a flat footed lie stated to the effect that B&L had gone through the Temple in, I believe, 1987, and "Chanted" (the words were spoken in unison, not "chanted") . Well, I went through in 1980, and no such words were present, nor were they when my parents went through in the forties. I have here, either on disk or in book form, an ancient text, either, I believe, Christian Gnostic or early Christian apocrypha, in which the words spoken in the Endowment are mentioned quite clearly in virtually identical form. When I find them, I will post them. This is another little parallel, another "bullseye" that Joseph could not possible have known, that was part of Christina ritual life in the first centuries after Christ (if its actually Pseudopigrapha, that makes it even more interesting). The words are spoken in English, and there is nothing odd or weird about them.


You are wrong. The change was not made until 1990. I have no idea why your memory is so poor, or perhaps you are the liar. In addition, your semantics game is silly.

But this is typical of your behavior. You are often wrong, and cannot see you are wrong, and act obnoxiously towards those who are actually correct.


Sin affects the the relative strength of one's testimony in relative ways, depending upon one's spiritual maturity, experience, and the depth of the testimony one already has. Denying one's testimony and leaving the Church, however, is a sin, in and of itself, and a most consequential one.


What a self-serving rationalization.

And I've never, ever, understood people like you (I feel like Arnold Schwarzenegger talking to the Predator).


I am quite sure you do not understand people who actually live according to their professed principles.



I live by a great many of them. Lower the intellectual bar for your own self justification a little further Beastie.


You can't obtain a temple recommend. Apparently the ones you live by aren't sufficient in the eyes of the church.



I am an alcohol addict, not a social drinker or someone who drinks to be part of the crowd. I also have suffered from some OCD-like problems, and Tourette's Syndrome. I do not break the WoW in other aspects.

What you would do, or not do, in my life circumstances, is about as relevant to me as how cold it is on Pluto.


This is unfortunate. You've had a rough time. I am sympathetic to that. I've learned enough about you in this thread that I think I understand your behavior more. I won't excuse it or coddle you, but I think I do have more understanding of why you post in the way you do.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Coggins7 wrote:No, not really. Pay Lay Ale has not been spoken in the Temple for an age. There was a flat footed lie stated to the effect that B&L had gone through the Temple in, I believe, 1987, and "Chanted" (the words were spoken in unison, not "chanted") . Well, I went through in 1980, and no such words were present, nor were they when my parents went through in the forties.


I'm breaking my self-imposed exile to say this: either you're a lying sack of crap or you have the world's worst memory. I attended the temple literally hundreds of times before the "pay lay ale" (and no, that's not the spelling) was removed in April of 1990. If anyone's been caught in a flat-footed lie, it's you, Cogs, not Porter.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
Post Reply