Are there any Mormon "Spitzers?"

[_BishopRic]

The top news story of the day is the admission of NY governor Eliot Spitzer of his involvement in a high-cost prostitution ring.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/10/ ... =hpmostpop

An excerpt:

"Spitzer had served two terms as attorney general where he pursued criminal and civil cases and cracked down on misconduct and conflicts of interests on Wall Street and in corporate America. He had previously been a prosecutor in the Manhattan District attorney's office, handling organized crime and white-collar crime cases.

His cases as state attorney general included a few criminal prosecutions of prostitution rings and into tourism involving prostitutes.

In 2004, he was part of an investigation of an escort service in New York City that resulted in the arrest of 18 people on charges of promoting prostitution and related charges"

It seems we're seeing more high profile moral activists getting caught in the very behavior they fight against. Some psychology theories say this is quite common, as their actions against others is really their way of "redeeming" their own guilt-ridden indiscretions.

Do we have any of that in Mormonism?

[_Some Schmo]

It seems we're seeing more high profile moral activists getting caught in the very behavior they fight against. Some psychology theories say this is quite common, as their actions against others is really their way of "redeeming" their own guilt-ridden indiscretions.

Do we have any of that in Mormonism?

Sure we do. Just read any of the condemning posts by TBMs on this board and you can bet that it's directed more at self than anyone else. It's a pretty common thing to see people calling others out for behavior of which they themselves are most guilty.

Hypocrisy is one of the 10 Mormon commandments, it seems.

[_BishopRic]

It seems we're seeing more high profile moral activists getting caught in the very behavior they fight against. Some psychology theories say this is quite common, as their actions against others is really their way of "redeeming" their own guilt-ridden indiscretions.

Do we have any of that in Mormonism?

Sure we do. Just read any of the condemning posts by TBMs on this board and you can bet that it's directed more at self than anyone else. It's a pretty common thing to see people calling others out for behavior of which they themselves are most guilty.

Hypocrisy is one of the 10 Mormon commandments, it seems.

Yes, I actually know quite a few. Most notable in my life was a bishop who was known for his aggressive action against those who committed "sexual sins." He didn't have much tolerance for "immorality," and often sent those with a "first offense" to the "court of love."

I was on the council that had to excommunicate him for his pedophilia. We were stunned at the time, but it all makes sense now....

[_bcspace]

Hypocrisy is a two-edged sword. It doesn't invalidate morality and it causes the weak to believe that there is no morality and conform, lemming like, with those rushing away from it.

[_Sethbag]

Given the question, I'm surprised nobody mentioned Lloyd Poelman. Brother to the Seventy Ronald Poelman (of the infamous revised Conference speech), Stake President at the time, and named partner in Kirton, McConkie, and Poelman (law firm which handled a lot of church legal matters), he was arrested after being observed picking up a woman who looked like a prostitute, and being found getting a blowjob from her in his car. He'd paid the woman $30. His was a sad tale. He was excommunicated and released as Stake President, and the law firm is now called Kirton and McConkie.

But hey, Elder Packer presided at the special Stake Conference that released Poelman as president, and he testified that, whatever else might happen to Poelman, there would be no eternal consequences. I wonder if that meant Poelman had had his calling and election made sure? I guess if he had, that means he might be buffeted for a time for getting his cock sucked by a hooker, but after being beaten with a few stripes, he'd still be exalted as a god.

My sister-in-law, as I recall, had a mission president on her mission who was excommunicated and went home early for committing adultery.

It's important to keep in mind that these incidents reflect only on the person they involved. The church certainly teaches against the things that Poelman and my SIL's MP did. In the same way, with Elliot Spitzer, his downfall doesn't mean that all the people and firms he hounded for legal transgressions didn't deserve it, or in any way imply that his prosecutions weren't perfectly valid.

[_the road to hana]

The top news story of the day is the admission of NY governor Eliot Spitzer of his involvement in a high-cost prostitution ring.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/10/ ... =hpmostpop

An excerpt:

"Spitzer had served two terms as attorney general where he pursued criminal and civil cases and cracked down on misconduct and conflicts of interests on Wall Street and in corporate America. He had previously been a prosecutor in the Manhattan District attorney's office, handling organized crime and white-collar crime cases.

His cases as state attorney general included a few criminal prosecutions of prostitution rings and into tourism involving prostitutes.

In 2004, he was part of an investigation of an escort service in New York City that resulted in the arrest of 18 people on charges of promoting prostitution and related charges"

It seems we're seeing more high profile moral activists getting caught in the very behavior they fight against. Some psychology theories say this is quite common, as their actions against others is really their way of "redeeming" their own guilt-ridden indiscretions.

Do we have any of that in Mormonism?

Judge Ray Harding of Utah County, Utah, was arrested on charges of felony drug possession and use and ousted a few years back.

http://deseretnews.com/article/content/ ... 70,00.html
http://utahbeehive.blogspot.com/2004/11 ... ng-jr.html

[_Moniker]

Huh. I've been thinking about this news story ever since I heard it. I know my reaction is probably different than others -- yet, I have NO desire to know who people sleep with and think it's ridiculous prostitution is illegal. MORE ridiculous is people being demonized because they have sex.

Anyway, the only thing that bothers me about this whole thing is the hypocrisy of the Gov prosecuting those in the past and then later partaking in the very thing he had prosecuted.

Just look over any thread at MAD about bikinis or the dodos here that are TBM that rail about others being sexual hedonists while they make posts twittering about sex constantly and it's apparent that they are trying to shift the burden to someone else for their lustfulness. I don't have a problem with people being lustful, sexual, etc... It's none of my business. Yet, if they're going to ridicule, and call others out for their behavior they sure as hell better live up to the standards they expect others to follow.

It's actually fairly simple to see this mentality in just a few of the posters I've run across in the last year here and at MAD. The more moralistic and self righteous some of these posters are the more they seem VERY interested in sexual topics -- I'd imagine there are a few sexual skeletons in their closet that they have to project onto others. 'Course sexual skeletons in LDS closets is freaking masturbating -- which is ABSURD! No wonder some of them act sexually immature and obsessive with it.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Moniker,

Huh. I've been thinking about this news story ever since I heard it. I know my reaction is probably different than others -- yet, I have NO desire to know who people sleep with and think it's ridiculous prostitution is illegal. MORE ridiculous is people being demonized because they have sex.
Anyway, the only thing that bothers me about this whole thing is the hypocrisy of the Gov prosecuting those in the past and then later partaking in the very thing he had prosecuted.

I don't think anyone is "demonizing" anyone for having sex.

The personal sex lives of individuals is their business... however when a public leader is committing felonious behavior, I think it more than a personal matter.

In addition, I see Spitzer's behavior as abusive towards his wife. Lying, deceiving, humiliating, betraying, destroying the lives of those who one supposedly loves, doesn't sit well with me.

Unless he was upfront with his wife and they agreed to have an open relationship, (which doesn't seem to be the case), he was clearly abusive. Knowing what I do about sexual addiction, my guess is there was quite a bit more going on than what has come out. With the exception of Spitzer's illegal behavior we may not know all the challenges Spitzer's wife has gone through but I'm pretty sure it has been a horrific situation to say the least.

Again, folks can engage in whatever sexual behavior they want so long as they are not hurting others. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel quite certain Spitzer's behavior has seriously hurt his wife and family.

~dancer~

[_Sethbag]

I'm actually quite curious about just what in the hell Spitzer was getting for his five grand an hour. I mean, seriously, was it that good?

[_karl61]

I'm actually quite curious about just what in the hell Spitzer was getting for his five grand an hour. I mean, seriously, was it that good?

I thought $150.00 was a lot. But I told the Church what was happening - which expedited the big boot! In the long run it's best to be up front to what is happening as you respect your honesty years later.