who needs to know?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Harmony,

This experience breaks my heart as well.

First, your daughter is NOT damaged goods. (I know you know this.. just reaffirming because I feel so strongly about this).

Even women who are raped and severely sexually abused are NOT damaged goods. They are survivors. They endured horrific experiences and are alive.

Secondly, I'm not sure how ingrained this perspective (men having a difficult time with abuse), is in LDS men. While I think it was quite common in the past I have a sense (could be wrong), that it is less so today in younger men. Still, there certainly is a lack of understanding, awareness, and even discussion in the church concerning abuse; lots of misconceptions for sure.

Finally, disclosure.

I hold a very strong opinion on this.. I believe whatever the survivor wishes is what is appropriate. If she wants to share the information, then I support her decision. If she does not, I support her as well. I honor, respect, and support whatever the survivor feels is the most healthy choice for her well being.

The circumstances of abuse vary in so many ways. Healing from sexual assault is complex and women find their own specific way to deal with it. There is not a "one way".

There are some women who find sharing the information of their abuse helpful. They speak out and are very vocal. There are others who want to deal with it, put it behind them and never have to bring the incident to their minds again.

Either way, again, I honor the individual survivor to make the choices she feels are most helpful and healthy for her life.

Sexual abuse is usually an extremely horrific event and sharing the information is not easy for most survivors regardless of religion or even society. We find similar dynamics throughout history and cross culturally.

Having said this, I think if a woman or man is dealing with issues that directly impact one's relationship it is often in the best interest to disclose. For example disclosure may be appropriate if a woman had an incident that made her infertile, her challenge may impact the future family. Or if a man still suffers from PTSD after years of abuse from his father, it most likely will be in the best interest of the relationship to share the experience in order for continual health. I think disclosure under these types of circumstances is the more honorable and decent way to enter a relationship.

However, again I do not think it necessary to share all the details. Some women simply cannot, other women feel they must.

Having said this, I think a guy who has issues with a woman who as a child, girl, or young woman was abused is NOT a guy ready for a healthy mature relationship.

The GUY needs professional help to look at himself to see what is going on inside creating feelings of judgment, fear, insecurity, or even threats because a woman was abused.

While you daughter offered the information to various men wanting to be open and honest, she did find out that they were not the type of guys who would be a good partner for her. She deserves better! :-)

My heart goes out to both of you!


~dancer~

[_BishopRic]

BishopRic,

Could you address the question rasied in the OP for us? Who needs to know? I'd like to read what you have to say on the matter given your background.

I think this is very much an individual issue, depending on many factors. First, if there was not intercourse, there is no issue of potential STD transmission, so since there is no risk to the new partner, I don't think anybody "needs to know" if she chooses not to tell. Like Harmony said, if it is important for her to tell for her own feeling of honesty and integrity, then I think that is fine...and frankly, if it is like Harmony says, any guy who chooses to judge her negatively is not worth partnering with anyway -- in my opinion.

One point I was trying to make in my story is that the whole culture of shame and guilt associated with sexuality is so man-made and instilled, that if a person understands this, it may not be so necessary to "tell" another about it. I think it might be helpful for her to view her "confession" of the past as her own therapy, rather than a necessary step for some sort of needed forgiveness. I see that as all man-made anyway.

[_Jersey Girl]

I have a few more comments to make but first a thanks to truthdancer and BishopRic for their own comments.

The question raised in the OP: Who needs to know?

My answer: No one needs to know.

I don't think that anyone "needs to know". I think the more accurate statement in this case is that the victim might "need others to know" for whatever reasons. Perhaps the victim wishes the other person to know them more intimately or the victim wishes others to know the difficulty they might have in a relationship and why that might be the case.

I agree with BishopRic when he stated to the effect that he doubted that people in other religious groups would have the same reaction of "damaged good" and the stigma associated with LDS attitudes toward things of a sexual nature.

The stigma that harmony's child and others encounter in their religious group is perhaps even more emotionally/socially painful than the abuse itself.

I think it's important to discuss what issues the victim of sexual abuse might be dealing with. That is to say, the inherent damage to the ability of one to trust others in a relationship. The stigma that is created with the mindset of "damaged goods" turns the damage and onus on to the victim instead of the abuser which is entirely backwards.

I don't think any one needs to know unless the victim chooses to share for whatever reasons. Beyond those personal reasons that make sense from the perspective of the victim and for their purposes, it is not necessary for one to share their past with another.

My 2 cents.

[_moksha]

Harmony, I am sorry to hear how you and your daughter were abused.

Off the top of my head, I would think that any guy who bolts upon hearing that is not worth having anyway. Would it create any problems for her not to share this information? Has she worked through any resulting issues with a therapist?

[_Jason Bourne]

Not all LDS men will respond this way. But my opinion and it is only that is this. She does not need to tell anything until the relationship is fairly serious, like headed towards marriage. Then she may want to share some general comments that she has suffered from some sexual abuse in her past but avoid the nitty gritty. The only reason I say that is her hideous experiences can impact how and who she is and I think it is fair to know such a thing about any potential marriage partner.

However, I could be persuaded to the never tell category.

[_Jersey Girl]

Not all LDS men will respond this way. But my opinion and it is only that is this. She does not need to tell anything until the relationship is fairly serious, like headed towards marriage. Then she may want to share some general comments that she has suffered from some sexual abuse in her past but avoid the nitty gritty. The only reason I say that is her hideous experiences can impact how and who she is and I think it is fair to know such a thing about any potential marriage partner.

However, I could be persuaded to the never tell category.

Jason,

I agree with all that you've stated above. Imagine that. I am certain that there are LDS men who would respond otherwise to what harmony has shared. I also want to say that for some victims of abuse (not all certainly) there is the issue of whether or not a person will allow the abuse to define them for the rest of their lives. For a person who has reached a point where they have done the best to deal with abuse internally, feel satisfied with the outcome of their journey, and do not wish for it to define them...I think no one has a "need" to know unless they feel compelled to share it.

[_Jersey Girl]

And as to the "damaged goods" mindset. People are not "goods"!

[_sunstoned]

Something has just come to my attention. You all know I have a daughter who was abused as a young child and nearly raped as a young teenager. I readily acknowledge that I knew nothing of the abuse (had I known, the people involved would still bear the scars) and I handled the near rape badly. The list of what I should have done is long and detailed, whereas what I did do damaged someone I love a great deal. (I followed my bishop's advice, which was to do nothing. That is the one regret I have, and I have to live with it, but that's not what this thread is about).

This daughter is beautiful, sociable, innocent, and unmarried, even though she is 30 and has a host of friends. I had assumed until last week that she was single because that was her choice. Instead, I found out that she is single because when she would get close enough to an LDS guy to actually talk about such things, she would tell him of the abuse and the near rape... and he would make a quick exit, because she was damaged goods and no LDS man wants damaged goods to take to wife.

When I was young, I was also abused in much the same manner, although mine went on for years, far into my teenage years. I chose to never tell my husband about it. Perhaps I should have, and perhaps it would have made no difference to him, but still, it was a choice I made.

I'm sure you can imagine the anger I feel. She is not damaged goods. She is a virgin and innocent.

My question is... how much should she disclose? And when? I disclosed nothing to her father until she revealed the abuse to her father and I. And while the abuse I suffered still effects a few of my actions (I prefer to shower and dress in the dark with the lights off or only when I am completely alone in the house), I have gotten over a few of my responses (I no longer sleep wrapped up in the blankets like a burrito, although I still cannot sleep if I am being touched). No doubt the abuse she suffered will follow her also, but should the man who loves her enough to accept her no matter what know why she does some of the things she does?

My other question is... how deeply ingrained is this abhorrance of abuse victims in LDS men? Or men in general?

Harmony,

I feel for you. I really do. My daughter was raped while at BYU-H. This was 10 years ago, and I think about it daily. Anger, guilt, pain, sorrow, deep sorrow, is how this has affected me. I can't begin to comprehend how it affected my daughter. She is now 30, single and is just now recovering from her second suicide attempt.

You, your daughter, my daughter are not damaged goods. But try and tell that to men who are taught to make judgements by things as superficial as earring count or body art.

[_beastie]

While I agree that only your daughter can decide whether or not to share this information, I would share it if I were in a serious relationship - one reason being that I would not want to continue the relationship with someone whose ideas were so distorted that it made them view me as "damaged goods". She's better off finding out before she makes the mistake of marrying such an idiot.

[_asbestosman]

Secondly, I'm not sure how ingrained this perspective (men having a difficult time with abuse), is in LDS men. While I think it was quite common in the past I have a sense (could be wrong), that it is less so today in younger men. Still, there certainly is a lack of understanding, awareness, and even discussion in the church concerning abuse; lots of misconceptions for sure.

I was more worried about women who engaged in consentual pre-marital sex because I always had doubts about their level of commitment to the gospel and to me (converts get extra lee-way). I would not have had those questions for a victim. On the other hand, I know very lilttle about how one should best support a victim. In all honesty, that part could scare me off depending on the victim's needs. If the woman still wishes to have intimate relationships a man, then things are probably fine. If she's scared to ever be alone, then it might be difficult for someone like me to handle. I assume that's not the case with Harmony's daughter. Just offering my 29-yr old LDS male perspective.