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_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

Nehor, I'll slimeball with ya.

I agree with what you said.

I listen to Loveline a lot, and is it SO common for a girl to call about some emotional problem which is eventually traced back to sexual abuse. Now, there are saints out there who are willing to support a loved one through whatever it takes to heal this tragedy. But, as for myself, I'd probably pass unless I felt that they had dealt with it through counseling. It would have nothing to do with her being "damaged goods" sexually. But, "damaged goods" emotionally and intimately.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

I'm bowing out -- 'cause I'm going to lose it with Nehor attempting to teach me about sexual intimacy in relationships.

Later!

:)
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Moniker wrote:I'm bowing out -- 'cause I'm going to lose it with Nehor attempting to teach me about sexual intimacy in relationships.

Later!

:)


Not trying to teach, just sharing what I think and what I've learned. Feel free to lose it. It can be healthy and I can take it. :)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

I think that Nehor is just stoking the fire.

Scottie, Jesus never left anyone alone who was damaged goods emotionally. If anyone is going to call themselves a disciple of him (I don't know what your spiritual path is), they need to take the mantle on completely.

I would never have fared well with some of the men in this forum, and it's not because I'm a bad person, it's not because I'm ugly, it's not because of any fault of mine. It's because I was a victim. That's sad.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Sam Harris wrote:I think that Nehor is just stoking the fire.

Scottie, Jesus never left anyone alone who was damaged goods emotionally. If anyone is going to call themselves a disciple of him (I don't know what your spiritual path is), they need to take the mantle on completely.

I would never have fared well with some of the men in this forum, and it's not because I'm a bad person, it's not because I'm ugly, it's not because of any fault of mine. It's because I was a victim. That's sad.


I'm not, I'm just saying if she feels the need to vent on me I'm okay with it. If not, I'm okay with that too.

I don't think bringing Jesus in here works unless we switch from romantic relationships to general relationships.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

The Nehor wrote:
Moniker wrote:I'm bowing out -- 'cause I'm going to lose it with Nehor attempting to teach me about sexual intimacy in relationships.

Later!

:)


Not trying to teach, just sharing what I think and what I've learned. Feel free to lose it. It can be healthy and I can take it. :)


Okay then! :)

I'm not obsessed with it. I've dated girls with complex sexual pasts. Yes, I think someone is a different person before and after they have sex.


How? What changes?

Sex forms connections with people. I don't think anyone can have sex with someone without altering how they view the other person, for good or ill.


Yep, intimacy can be a part of sexuality. Yet, men that have sex with their wives view them as somehow DIFFERENT after they have intercourse? Just once or is each instance a life changing event?? :) Your view of the other person changes... why? Or is it that you may somehow feel more connected, more passionate, etc.. doesn't that say more about YOU than the other person??

Experiences change people and sex is a heady experience. I don't mean by saying this to imply that it's a completely serious experience. There should be fun and playfulness involved. Still, yes, it changes the person participating in it. I really don't want to meet the person so jaded to it that it means nothing now.


Sometimes sex is not a heady experience. I bet there are some married men on this site (and women) that aren't doing much more than the motions.... Well, there are PLENTY of married folks that do the deed and don't have candlelight in the background, the soothing sexy soundtrack going or any other romantic nonsense -- it's a sexual urge that is met for most people -- not always such a heady thing. ALSO, married folks routinely just go through the motions (women especially where they lay back and just count the moments) and they're pretty jaded..... :)

I also don't think sex is alone as a life-changing experience. Having sex with someone for the first time, death of a family member, developing an exciting new hobby, developing an addiction, becoming closer to a friend. All these change the person involved for good or ill. I would describe people that are not changed by these experiences as less human and less alive, a tragedy.


A life changing experience can be all sorts of things -- yet they don't fundamentally change the PERSON that is dealing with the experience.

Harmony started the OP taking about her daughter and her traits. She had NO idea her daughter had been abused.... her MOTHER could NOT tell there was ANYTHING going on. Did it change Harmony's daughter? Maybe? Maybe not? For the worst? For the better? Did she deal with it? Maybe, maybe not? We do NOT know!

I can have sex with a man and snuggle up next to him, adore him, feel intimate with him -- may feel passion... yet I am still ME! Same as yesterday -- just now I'm in after sexual bliss. :)
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Nehor wrote:I really don't want to meet the person so jaded to it that it means nothing now.


I'm curious about this comment, Nehor.

Do you feel that simply because someone is not a virgin, they are jaded to the point where sex means nothing? I'm hoping that's not what you mean.

I was right with what you were saying up until that statement.

Yes, sex does develop a strong connection with another person. And, yes, I think it should be viewed as a big deal.

But I don't think that just because someone has had sex before automatically makes them jaded toward the sex act, or toward intimacy in a relationship.

(Don't mind me. I'm an old woman of 44, and have been married for 20+ years. LOL)
_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

Sam Harris wrote:I think that Nehor is just stoking the fire.

Scottie, Jesus never left anyone alone who was damaged goods emotionally. If anyone is going to call themselves a disciple of him (I don't know what your spiritual path is), they need to take the mantle on completely.

I would never have fared well with some of the men in this forum, and it's not because I'm a bad person, it's not because I'm ugly, it's not because of any fault of mine. It's because I was a victim. That's sad.

Well, I'm far from being Jesus, there is no doubt about that!!

Everyone should be entitled to decide for themselves what they do and don't want in a partner, yes? If I choose not to date anyone that is under 5'4", does that make me bad? If I don't like red heads, am I succumbing to unjust judgments?

Plus, I think you missed part of what I said. If someone has been abused and has not dealt with it, then I would be wary. If I felt they had dealt with it, I have no problems.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_BishopRic
_Emeritus
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:59 pm

Post by _BishopRic »

The Nehor wrote:
Yes, I think someone is a different person before and after they have sex. Sex forms connections with people. I don't think anyone can have sex with someone without altering how they view the other person, for good or ill.


Oh, this could open a can of worms! I'll keep this short...not to derail too much.

Sex IS very important in a relationship; and the dynamics between two people change immensely after having sex.

SO WHY WOULD ONE RISK THAT BY NOT HAVING SEX WITH THEIR POTENTIAL LIFELONG MATE BEFORE MARRIAGE?!?!?

It baffles me. I know about the proscribed religious rules...and it is much easier for me today to see that they are man-made. But the consequences of this tradition are huge!

I've had sex the Mormon way (both virgins, temple married), and the non-Mormon way. They are vastly different.

The day after my wedding I viewed my wife differently than before. There's some evolutionary components to why that is (different thread), but it is true. It turned out that she HAD been abused when so young that she didn't remember. All she knew was that she was extremely scared and shy about sex. She had been quite amorous (as much as a Mormon can be with clothes on) during our 4 1/2 months dating, but it all changed on our wedding day. We worked on the issues the next 21 years. Approaching this from a Mormon perspective made it difficult for her to heal. I hope she is making progress in her current marriage.

Point is, there was much that would have been different if we would have been smarter about it. I really don't know what, but I'm sure things would have been different.

Since our divorce, I've dated normally. My fiance and I (also an exmo) have been together for three years. We'll be married in June, and I have no question that we will be just fine in every way. We've lived throught the getting to know each other stages...sexually and otherwise. Yes, after the "sexual tension" passed, we looked at each other differently, and could see the areas we needed to change and accept in each other. That was completely obscure in my dating my first wife. For me (and maybe a male thing, I dunno, never been female...), it was all about getting her to bed.

No, I don't see that changing officially in the near future in Mormonism, but I wish it would. For everybody concerned.
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
_asbestosman
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:32 pm

Post by _asbestosman »

Sam Harris wrote:Perhaps these LDS guys, these members of the "one true", these high priests, these kings in their homes need to grow up. If you can't handle loving someone in a christlike and unconditional way who has been scarred, then you don't need to be having your own family, because it could be your daughter one day. What you gonna do, turn away from her?

I'm guilty on the matrurity thing.

I can love people I wouldn't have married. Marriage seems different somehow. In marriage I want to give the person a fair chance at knowing what I am or am not good at handling. In some cases, I thought I would not have been able to bring happiness to the person even if I might have thought the person was wonderful. In some cases I couldn't deal with part of their personality (excessive quietness). In many cases, I think they couldn't deal with my nerdinesss, unsocial behavior, and immaturity in emotions and tastes. There is no out-of-hand dismissal. It is a question of personality which sadly can be effected by circumstances beyond one's control. Why won't I give up on my wife if she suffers from some terrible incident? Because of commitment. Why wouldn't I have married her if it happened before we knew each other? Because of my lack of intial qualification. The real challenge for me in marriage is getting my wife to feel like I'm still somehow worth it even as she grows. It is even tougher to find someone with something I can handle that can handle my stuff. Somehow I managed to do it and keep her thinking I'm worth it.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
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