who needs to know?

[_The Nehor]

I really don't want to meet the person so jaded to it that it means nothing now.

I'm curious about this comment, Nehor.

Do you feel that simply because someone is not a virgin, they are jaded to the point where sex means nothing? I'm hoping that's not what you mean.

I was right with what you were saying up until that statement.

Yes, sex does develop a strong connection with another person. And, yes, I think it should be viewed as a big deal.

But I don't think that just because someone has had sex before automatically makes them jaded toward the sex act, or toward intimacy in a relationship.

(Don't mind me. I'm an old woman of 44, and have been married for 20+ years. LOL)

That was not what I meant. I meant that some people can become jaded to sex until it means nothing to them though how this happens will vary among individuals. I think it's sad.

[_Sam Harris]

I think that Nehor is just stoking the fire.

Scottie, Jesus never left anyone alone who was damaged goods emotionally. If anyone is going to call themselves a disciple of him (I don't know what your spiritual path is), they need to take the mantle on completely.

I would never have fared well with some of the men in this forum, and it's not because I'm a bad person, it's not because I'm ugly, it's not because of any fault of mine. It's because I was a victim. That's sad.

I'm not, I'm just saying if she feels the need to vent on me I'm okay with it. If not, I'm okay with that too.

I don't think bringing Jesus in here works unless we switch from romantic relationships to general relationships.

Um, why can't romance and Jesus be compatible?

[_Yoda]

I meant that some people can become jaded to sex until it means nothing to them though how this happens will vary among individuals. I think it's sad.

I agree.

[_Moniker]

Yes, I think someone is a different person before and after they have sex. Sex forms connections with people. I don't think anyone can have sex with someone without altering how they view the other person, for good or ill.

Oh, this could open a can of worms! I'll keep this short...not to derail too much.

Sex IS very important in a relationship; and the dynamics between two people change immensely after having sex.

SO WHY WOULD ONE RISK THAT BY NOT HAVING SEX WITH THEIR POTENTIAL LIFELONG MATE BEFORE MARRIAGE?!?!?

It baffles me. I know about the proscribed religious rules...and it is much easier for me today to see that they are man-made. But the consequences of this tradition are huge!

I've had sex the Mormon way (both virgins, temple married), and the non-Mormon way. They are vastly different.

The day after my wedding I viewed my wife differently than before. There's some evolutionary components to why that is (different thread), but it is true. It turned out that she HAD been abused when so young that she didn't remember. All she knew was that she was extremely scared and shy about sex. She had been quite amorous (as much as a Mormon can be with clothes on) during our 4 1/2 months dating, but it all changed on our wedding day. We worked on the issues the next 21 years. Approaching this from a Mormon perspective made it difficult for her to heal. I hope she is making progress in her current marriage.

Point is, there was much that would have been different if we would have been smarter about it. I really don't know what, but I'm sure things would have been different.

Since our divorce, I've dated normally. My fiance and I (also an exmo) have been together for three years. We'll be married in June, and I have no question that we will be just fine in every way. We've lived throught the getting to know each other stages...sexually and otherwise. Yes, after the "sexual tension" passed, we looked at each other differently, and could see the areas we needed to change and accept in each other. That was completely obscure in my dating my first wife. For me (and maybe a male thing, I dunno, never been female...), it was all about getting her to bed.

No, I don't see that changing officially in the near future in Mormonism, but I wish it would. For everybody concerned.

Bravo!

[_Sam Harris]

I think that Nehor is just stoking the fire.

Scottie, Jesus never left anyone alone who was damaged goods emotionally. If anyone is going to call themselves a disciple of him (I don't know what your spiritual path is), they need to take the mantle on completely.

I would never have fared well with some of the men in this forum, and it's not because I'm a bad person, it's not because I'm ugly, it's not because of any fault of mine. It's because I was a victim. That's sad.

Well, I'm far from being Jesus, there is no doubt about that!!

Everyone should be entitled to decide for themselves what they do and don't want in a partner, yes? If I choose not to date anyone that is under 5'4", does that make me bad? If I don't like red heads, am I succumbing to unjust judgments?

Plus, I think you missed part of what I said. If someone has been abused and has not dealt with it, then I would be wary. If I felt they had dealt with it, I have no problems.

Scottie, you drew a line that Nehor didn't. You mentioned having dealt with it. Nehor's comments show that he really has little experience with this issue. The comment on women being so Jaded that sex means nothing, and the comment about unchaste wives (he was channeling someone else) are just a few delicious tidbits...

How do you know when someone has dealt with something like that? To me, healing is a lifetime process... In many ways I've dealt with my abuse, but in other ways it will always hurt.

Something happened just the other weekend that showed me just how deep my wounds go. I won't post it on this board. But because that incident happened, should I be abandoned? Apparently some people don't think so...

20 minutes to go and I go home. WHOOOOOHOOOO!!!!

[_Yoda]

Sex IS very important in a relationship; and the dynamics between two people change immensely after having sex.

SO WHY WOULD ONE RISK THAT BY NOT HAVING SEX WITH THEIR POTENTIAL LIFELONG MATE BEFORE MARRIAGE?!?!?

It baffles me. I know about the proscribed religious rules...and it is much easier for me today to see that they are man-made. But the consequences of this tradition are huge!

I agree. My husband and I were both virgins, and married in the temple. We've been married for 20+ years now.

Sexual compatibility is a huge part of marriage, and it is something that is not easily discussed within LDS culture. We both had issues, and it took us a long time to get to the point where our sexual lives were fulfilling for both of us.

We waited 3 years before he had kids, so we had an opportunity to get to know each other sexually, and become more compatible, but I feel for those who "follow the Mormon counsel" and have kids right away. Kids add a whole new dynamic to things, and can make things even harder as far as establishing that one-on-one relationship.

[_The Nehor]

I think that Nehor is just stoking the fire.

Scottie, Jesus never left anyone alone who was damaged goods emotionally. If anyone is going to call themselves a disciple of him (I don't know what your spiritual path is), they need to take the mantle on completely.

I would never have fared well with some of the men in this forum, and it's not because I'm a bad person, it's not because I'm ugly, it's not because of any fault of mine. It's because I was a victim. That's sad.

I'm not, I'm just saying if she feels the need to vent on me I'm okay with it. If not, I'm okay with that too.

I don't think bringing Jesus in here works unless we switch from romantic relationships to general relationships.

Um, why can't romance and Jesus be compatible?

When Jesus told me to love everyone it is not eros he had in mind. If I didn't help anyone I didn't want a romantic relationship with I would be borderline amoral.

[_Yoda]

Scottie, you drew a line that Nehor didn't. You mentioned having dealt with it. Nehor's comments show that he really has little experience with this issue.

To be fair to Nehor, I think you are misrepresenting him a bit. He stated that his last two serious relationships involved women who had gone through abuse. From how he described these situations, it sounds like he grew frustrated because he tried to fix things that he really couldn't fix.

After being involved in two emotionally charged relationships, I don't think it is unfair of Nehor to state that he would prefer to not be placed in that type of situation again. It doesn't sound to me, however, that he would completely rule out a relationship with another woman who went through abuse if he loved her.

[_Sam Harris]

I think that Nehor is just stoking the fire.

Scottie, Jesus never left anyone alone who was damaged goods emotionally. If anyone is going to call themselves a disciple of him (I don't know what your spiritual path is), they need to take the mantle on completely.

I would never have fared well with some of the men in this forum, and it's not because I'm a bad person, it's not because I'm ugly, it's not because of any fault of mine. It's because I was a victim. That's sad.

I'm not, I'm just saying if she feels the need to vent on me I'm okay with it. If not, I'm okay with that too.

I don't think bringing Jesus in here works unless we switch from romantic relationships to general relationships.

Um, why can't romance and Jesus be compatible?

When Jesus told me to love everyone it is not eros he had in mind. If I didn't help anyone I didn't want a romantic relationship with I would be borderline amoral.

That didn't answer my question at all. I'm not talking about free love. When you get married, if Christ isn't in your relationship Nehor, then your whole faith construct is hypocritical.

[_Sam Harris]

Scottie, you drew a line that Nehor didn't. You mentioned having dealt with it. Nehor's comments show that he really has little experience with this issue.

To be fair to Nehor, I think you are misrepresenting him a bit. He stated that his last two serious relationships involved women who had gone through abuse. From how he described these situations, it sounds like he grew frustrated because he tried to fix things that he really couldn't fix.

After being involved in two emotionally charged relationships, I don't think it is unfair of Nehor to state that he would prefer to not be placed in that type of situation again. It doesn't sound to me, however, that he would completely rule out a relationship with another woman who went through abuse if he loved her.

Stop fixing. Just love. Simple. Realize that you cannot fix, but if you love, you can help the person to heal themselves. Nehor should stop labeling people who he doesn't know based on the bad choices he made in past relationships. His "fixing" was his fault, not the victims.