Lamanite only a political designation?

[_harmony]

But it is very odd if live prophets actually have the power to make dead ones say or write things they did not actually say or write when they were alive. That is scary.

Not odd at all. Revision has been going on since the beginning. Look how many times the First Vision was revised!

[_Ten Bear]

Not odd at all. Revision has been going on since the beginning. Look how many times the First Vision was revised!

I cringe everytime I hear, "How could an uneducated farm boy write the Book of Mormon." Twice now, my responce has been in real life, "uneducated farm boy? Lets get this straight:

First off, he was in his twenties.

Second he did have some education.

Third, he was rather clever and quite intellegent enough. Whether you view him as one of the greatest Prophets that ever lived, or as one of the trickiest charlatans that ever tricked his tricks, he was smart enough.

And last, have you ever gone through the original Book of Mormon? It's riddled with mistakes. Thousands! They've had to make literally thousands of corrections since the first version.

Mind you, most were insignificant gramatical errors, but isn't that what you'd expect from a less educated farm boy? Some mistakes were bigger - like having King Benjamin appear later in the story as if the author forgot that he had already been killed off. And the fact that everywhere it states "even Jesus and the Eternal Father ..." originally read " ... even Jesus the Eternal Father" (or close, I'm not reading the actual text) as if the idea of seperating Jesus and Heavanly Father was an after thought.

Yes, I can see very easily how a small time farm boy could have written this." (Even though I think he had help)

I've said this to my home teaching companion when we were talking about dumb things in the church and to my wife when discussing the "brilliance" of the book.

My point is how much the "most perfect book" had to be revised and changed.

[_Yoda]

Are you serious about the bits in bold? You mean they have actually changed the text of a letter written by Joseph Smith to a newspaper?

I'm curious about this as well.

SatanWasSetUp, do you have any side by side quotes you could provide? I would be interested in reading the original in contrast with the revised.

[_Who Knows]

See here.

[_Yoda]

See here.

Thanks, WK!

I missed this!

;)

[_guy sajer]

See here.

And yet Will and his ilk will continue to argue that this was never taught and that those who believe it are silly fanatics.

Do people like Will ever sit back, reflect, and actually feel a bit silly for all the dumb things they say?

[_antishock8]

See here.

And yet Will and his ilk will continue to argue that this was never taught and that those who believe it are silly fanatics.

Do people like Will ever sit back, reflect, and actually feel a bit silly for all the dumb things they say?

No, they do not. For them as long as they respond in a wildly nonsensical way that in of itself is enough to calm their cognitive alarm bells. I repeat. As long as they respond in a wildly nonsensical way... that... in of itself.. is enough to put their minds at ease. Ad homs just help them forget the original point being stressed.

[_Ten Bear]

Do you ever wonder if this site is some kind of "play ground" for the likes of Will and gang. They know good and well what they are saying is silliness. They still have faith in the church, but sometimes they just want to act out some dark fantasies where there are no rules and they can just throw mindless thoughts and ideas and "spar with the enemy" with no accountability. You know, while no one's looking.

"Here, watch this. Get a load of this. I'm going to throw this hairless, toothless, weak dog into the fight and watch the fun. Who cares what they think. It's just fun to play with them."

Then we answer back as if they are sincere.

This is how I felt yesterday after having some exchange with Will where I thought some level of intelligent ideas were being brought out. Then suddenly, he turns on Liz like some spoiled middle school student with about the same manners. It was shocking to me. Then I thought, this guy is a joke. He isn't here for thoughtful discussion, this is a game to him. Some place to just "mess around". Make jabs at the opostates and watch them squirm.

After reading further posts, it became evident that no sane person would be making these kind of statements. They're just posting with only one rule in mind. Say whatever you want, but never, ever give in. Loosing is not an option.

$.02

[_BishopRic]

Do you ever wonder if this site is some kind of "play ground" for the likes of Will and gang. They know good and well what they are saying is silliness. They still have faith in the church, but sometimes they just want to act out some dark fantasies where there are no rules and they can just throw mindless thoughts and ideas and "spar with the enemy" with no accountability. You know, while no one's looking.

"Here, watch this. Get a load of this. I'm going to throw this hairless, toothless, weak dog into the fight and watch the fun. Who cares what they think. It's just fun to play with them."

Then we answer back as if they are sincere.

This is how I felt yesterday after having some exchange with Will where I thought some level of intelligent ideas were being brought out. Then suddenly, he turns on Liz like some spoiled middle school student with about the same manners. It was shocking to me. Then I thought, this guy is a joke. He isn't here for thoughtful discussion, this is a game to him. Some place to just "mess around". Make jabs at the opostates and watch them squirm.

After reading further posts, it became evident that no sane person would be making these kind of statements. They're just posting with only one rule in mind. Say whatever you want, but never, ever give in. Loosing is not an option.

$.02

I think you're right, but I also think they really do believe. But you're right, there is a pattern -- whenever they get close to learning something, they turn to ad hom. It's happened so much I've concluded it is a self-preservation defense mechanism. If they can personally attack somebody else, they don't have to risk losing their very strong convictions, clearly based on strong egos.

(my $.015)

[_Yoda]

This is how I felt yesterday after having some exchange with Will where I thought some level of intelligent ideas were being brought out. Then suddenly, he turns on Liz like some spoiled middle school student with about the same manners. It was shocking to me. Then I thought, this guy is a joke. He isn't here for thoughtful discussion, this is a game to him. Some place to just "mess around". Make jabs at the apostates and watch them squirm.

And I would like to thank you, again, Ten Bear, for being the gentleman you are, and jumping to my defense. It was very appreciated.

I was also actually rather shocked at the rudeness and viciousness that Will exhibited here yesterday.

Having read many of his posts on FAIR/MAD, I had always enjoyed and learned from his posts, even if I didn't always agree with his stances. I was impressed with his overall knowledge. Then, a few months ago, he started vehemently attacking Runtu, both at MAD, and here. I really didn't understand this. Arguing positions is one thing. Getting personal is quite another. Runtu, to my knowledge, has never viciously attacked anyone on a personal level. He has always been very kind to others, and, like myself, has been labeled as a bit of a "board nanny" when personal insults have started to fly. LOL

As many of you are aware who know me here, I am an "equal opportunity profaner", Coggins so eloquently put it. I have friends on this board who are critics, and friends on this board who are believers. I have defended both when ad homs have flown out of control. I have gotten into brawls with both Bob Crockett and Infymus, for example, on the same issue of ad hom insults flying. They are about as opposite in their views as you can possibly get! Do I respect both of them? Yes. Do they both know that if they inadvertantly attack a friend of mine on the board without cause that I will say something to them? Yes.

How I treated Will was no different.