An LDS Funeral.

[_mocnarf]

Hi Bryan,

So how did your friend feel about all this? I mean, if he was cool with it, then why should you get all worked up?

Good point Dude.... My experience is that if the family wants to organizes the furneral, they can certainly make it centered on the their love one. But if they leave it up to the Bishop and Relief Society then they likely will get more of the other. These people are not paid furneral directors.... I guess one should recognize that fact.

[_sunstoned]

It’s sad that the quest for total control will extend itself into the grieving process of the family. Instead of honoring a loved one, celebrating her life and getting some closure, the church turns it into a recruiting session. Their insensitivity sickens me.

If this was the way it is and always is you would have a valid gripe. Since it is really not reality in most cases your using this as an ax to grind sickens me. What is being portrayed here is mostly not the case.

You want sick Jason? Go back and read BKPs funeral talk. There is some kind of sick. It is heartless and arrogant. Oh, and the part about Boyd sitting up in his own coffin and correcting the speaker is a nice touch of arrogance.

No ax to grind on my part. I’m just calling it like it is.

[_harmony]

It is heartless and arrogant.

It's Packer. If you expected something else, you came to the wrong pit bull.

[_moksha]

Comon Moksha, get with the Mormon program, or are you one of those heathen intellectuals?

Certainly not an intellectual (as you may have guessed), but it is within the province of the families to choose their own speakers. Let the missionaries go door to door and let the mourners express their grief and receive release from their pain.

[_Jason Bourne]

You want sick Jason? Go back and read BKPs funeral talk.

I have read it. There is no funeral talk. The comments were part of a larger talk about a number of issues of protocal. And I agree that his suggestions about funerals were not that great.

There is some kind of sick. It is heartless and arrogant. Oh, and the part about Boyd sitting up in his own coffin and correcting the speaker is a nice touch of arrogance.

I agree.

No ax to grind on my part. I’m just calling it like it is.

Ok. How many LDS funerals have you attended and or presided over? Whem someone can give me better evidence than my own experience than I have to assume that but for a few aberrations here and there LDS funerals are usually caring and compassionate events.

[_Sam Harris]

You've got Boyd KKK Packer to thank for that.

Yep, funerals are no longer about the deceased. They are now proselytizing sessions.

Talk about tithing or talk about Joseph Smith, but don't mention the dead person.

It amazes me how much Mormons use funerals as proselytizing sessions. The attitudes are “isn't it wonderful that we're not depressed at funerals because we know so much about the afterlife.” They go on and on about how wonderful the gospel is because they have the “One and True Church” and that the “Plan of Salvation” was so wonderful.

Mormonism. Isn't it marvelous and yet pathetic at the same time.

How many LDS funerals have you attended, spoke at, or presided over? My guess is very few and this is another stick for you to beat the Church with.

Ah yes, Bourne, lapdog for the Cult, ready to defend it at any cost.

Go away, a$$hole, go back to your Cult and suck their Sacrament.

I feel compelled to post in defense of Jason. His comments on this board are almost never akin to what one might expect from a "lapdog for the Cult" nor does he "defend it at any cost". His posts, infact, are often critical of certain aspects of the church. Two examples that come immediately to mind are his comments regarding financial disclosure and the doctrine of plural marriage.

People aren't all black and white, Infymus. Well, maybe some are, but Jason is not one of those. I remember once a long time ago when you characterized me as a "Mormon sympathizer". Sometimes I do sympathize with Mormons however, I am far more apt to criticize the LDS church and especially Joseph Smith than I am to comment in support of either of those.

I remember when I thought you were a total and complete jerk and then I read something you wrote online about your family. You are a multifaceted person--and so is Jason.

I'd like to pipe up for Jason, too. Like I've said before, no matter how much you may hate an organization, have some respect for its adherents. Everyone has the right to choose their own path in life. Jason is the kind of LDS the church should have, along with people like Mok...Liz...REAL PEOPLE.

The LDS church isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so why not be grateful for the people who are there who are willing to see a bit more reality than their TBM counterparts? There's nothing worse than a grown-assed man or woman who lives in a virtual Disneyworld.

[_Sam Harris]

One of my best friends in the world is being shipped out to Iraq for a year. He was en route this past week when he received a call about his mother.

Kathy has been fighting a lot of health problems for the last 5+ years and has been hospitalized for the last month. Two weeks ago she went into a coma. This week, she went into cardiac arrest and they decided to bring her off life support.

My friend was granted 4 days leave to come home and get the memorial organized.

The Memorial was yesterday. I was, originally, planning on being out of state but supporting my friend comes way above anything else I had planned.

This was the first time I have been back in an LDS church for any service since 2003. And you know what was odd? The fact that there was no difference between a normal Sacrament meeting and this funeral.

Songs praising Joseph Smith? Check.
Long, drawn-out prayers to showcase personal spirituality? Check.

I think the thing that pissed me off the most, out of everything else, was Kathy's bishop.

This man stood at the pulpit and compared losing a mother to, I kid you not, the Utah Jazz and BYU both losing at basketball on the same day.

It was infuriating and insensitive.

All in all, I think yesterday reminded me, above everything, that I'm grateful that Mormonism has no hold over me.

I hate funerals, we have far too many in our family because the Harrises procreate like effing bunnies. So the more people born, the more have to die.

I'm so sorry that you and your friend had to endure such complete insensitivity towards such a painful time. Funerals are for the living (in my opinion), but it's not so that you can have church. Now, I've been to funerals where that has happened (such and such is in a better place), but the focus was still on that individual.

My dad was a playa. On the day of his funeral, one of his ho's threw herself at the base of the coffin crying that he loved her best. She was lucky I got there late, because I would have dragged her by her nappy weave and deposited her outside the funeral home.

The only LDS funerals that I've had access to (didn't go, but got kind of a report of what happened) were for an old kind bishop and his wife. Luckily they were properly memorialized.

My heart goes out to your friend. The sky changed color the day my daddy died, it wasn't blue anymore for a long time. I don't know what I would have done had someone so disgraced his memory. Though one of my fundie cousins did try to imply he was burning because he didn't go to church...but that's just pentecostals for ya...

[_Infymus]

I will take your nasty non response as a concession that I am right and you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

I think your only purpose here Bourne is to attack anyone who criticizes your Cult - even if they have legitimate criticism. Both you and Nehor carefully avoid looking at the issues, and simply assume that the poster either doesn't know what they are talking about, or hasn't had enough experience in your Cult to form a valid opinion. Either way, you could care less - you are only here to attack and have nothing to contribute.

It must be hell having all the evidence that your Cult is nothing more than a sham. I think that is why you so voraciously defend it. By doing so, you push the cog dis aside.

Regardless, I'll give you this little entry I made for a Mormon funeral I attended just recently - one of many.

-

I attended the funeral of a friend last night. Daniel had been a member of the Mormon Church his whole life, but being a practicing homosexual, he was resigned only to play the piano and sing in the choir. Three years ago Daniel moved to San Francisco. Two years ago he was diagnosed with AIDS but he refused to believe that he was infected. He put it out of his mind and continued to live - all the while his health began to decline. About six months ago, AIDS had ravaged his body and mind so badly, he no longer understood who he was or where he was. His father took a train out to SF and brought him home. At local hospitals again they reiterated that Daniel had AIDS and needed immediate AIDS treatment - again he refused. Over the last few days of his life he slipped into a coma and died peacefully there.

It was held in at a Mormon funeral home in Salt Lake City. Had the funeral been held in a Mormon Church, I would not have attended, but would have visited the family at their residence to convey my condolences. I have a strict rule now that I'm Ex-Mormon - I will never step foot in any Mormon Church or Mormon Conference Center and I have changed my will to reflect that upon my death, it will not be in a Mormon Church or under the direction of Mormon clergy.

Inside the home there was a large chapel and to my dismay, it looked and smelled exactly like all of the Utah Mormon Churches built in the early part of the 1970's. Cinder block walls painted white, wooden benches covered in fabric - everything reeking of cheapness. The cheapest, thinnest carpet you can buy that curbs up on the cinder block walls. Tacky, typical, Mormonism.

When I found a place to sit I noticed there were several scattered Mormon hymnbooks on the pews. At first I just pushed it aside and sat down, but then I got a wild hair, picked up the book, turned to page 242 and began twinkling my eyes. I hoped that when I opened them I'd be on Kolob but it alas, it never happened.

The funeral was presided over by a Mormon Bishop of the ward that Daniel lived in, although Daniel hadn't been to a meeting in years. I had to squint and close my eyes to keep myself from rolling them too much. The Bishop continued to spout off how he believed that Daniel had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and that Daniel was now in the loving arms of his Savior. I had forgotten the low, rolling speak that Mormons use when talking - that uninspired melodramatic “General Authority” speak that just makes you cringe. The Bishop went on and on about the marvelous Mormon Plan Of Salvation and that we should all be so greatful that we have it. Well, they seem to think they have it. Why can't these Mormons talk about the deceased and the accomplishments of the deceased? Why must they drone on and on about their church?

The best part of the meeting was seeing friends, family and neighbors speak about his life. Even though we were not really in a Mormon Church, everyone ended his or her best wishes with “In the name of Cheese and Rice, Amen”, or something like that. My God, I'm in a sacrament meeting...

It amazes me how much Mormons use funerals as proselytizing sessions. The attitudes are “isn't it wonderful that we're not depressed at funerals because we know so much about the afterlife.” The Bishop just went on and on about how wonderful the gospel was because they have the “One and True Church” and that the “Plan of Salvation” was so wonderful. I couldn't help but think that this man who died - of AIDS - who was a practicing homosexual - was everything this Mormon Church hated. The Mormon Prophet has spoken out against homosexuals that they “Have problems”. It was sad to know that deep down underneath it all, all the Mormons in the room quietly sat in disgust about the choices Daniel made in his life.

I kept my mouth shut. It wasn't my family, it wasn't my religion - and wasn't my place to make comments and I was careful not to let my disgust of Mormonism get in the way of the nice talks given by friends and family about Daniel's life.

So long Daniel.

-

Mormon funerals are just Mormon sacrament meetings, nothing more.

[_beastie]

I've only been to one LDS funeral. They conducted it according to protocol, and most of it was just like a sacrament meeting. There was one talk that discussed the deceased. Half of the deceased' family were nonLDS, and they were not included in anyway in the ceremony.

I remember BKP's funeral talk, and think there is very little way to interpret this counsel OTHER than to try and conduct the funeral like a sacrament meeting.

Another point of order: Bishops should not yield the arrangement of meetings to members. They should not yield the arrangement for funerals or missionary farewells to families. It is not the proper order of things for members or families to expect to decide who will speak and for how long. Suggestions are in order, of course, but the bishop should not turn the meeting over to them. We are worried about the drift that is occurring in our meetings.

Funerals could and should be the most spiritually impressive. They are becoming informal family reunions in front of ward members. Often the Spirit is repulsed by humorous experiences or jokes when the time could be devoted to teaching the things of the Spirit, even the sacred things.

When the family insists that several family members speak in a funeral, we hear about the deceased instead of about the Atonement, the Resurrection, and the comforting promises revealed in the scriptures. Now it’s all right to have a family member speak at a funeral, but if they do, their remarks should be in keeping with the spirit of the meeting.

I have told my Brethren in that day when my funeral is held, if any of them who speak talk about me, I will raise up and correct them. The gospel is to be preached. I know of no meeting where the congregation is in a better state of readiness to receive revelation and inspiration from a speaker than they are at a funeral. This privilege is being taken away from us because we don’t understand the order of things—the unwritten order of things—that relates to the administration of the Church and the reception of the Spirit.

http://emp.byui.edu/huffr/The%20Unwritt ... Packer.htm

Reality in the LDS church is that local leaders can and do interpret and implement these sort of counsels differently, so I believe Jason (who is NOT a lap dog at ALL) when he says the funerals he's been to are different. However, if the deceased is in a ward of a bishop who wants to follow every jot and tittle of GA advice, the funeral will be like a sacrament meeting, and somewhat impersonal.

However, LDS are not the only ones to do this. My grandmother was Church of God and they did the exact same thing at her funeral. The preacher literally did not say ONE WORD about my grandmother or her life. I was angry. I didn't say anything to anyone because it wasn't appropriate to gripe at her funeral, but it did upset me.

[_Jason Bourne]

I think your only purpose here Bourne is to attack anyone who criticizes your Cult - even if they have legitimate criticism.

You clearly have your head up your ass if this is what you surmise from what I post here. I defend when it is appropriate and have criticized as well. Hell, you think I am a lap dog and Crockett thinks I am the devil's spawn for being an anonymous hypocrite and that I ought to resign from the Church now. IN many ways you can he are alike though at opposite ends to the spectrum. Now the problem with the way you criticize is that most of what might be legitimized is bastardized because of your ranting and foup style. If you are not bright enough to see this I cannot help you.

Both you and Nehor carefully avoid looking at the issues, and simply assume that the poster either doesn't know what they are talking about, or hasn't had enough experience in your Cult to form a valid opinion. Either way, you could care less - you are only here to attack and have nothing to contribute.

This is really quite funny coming from you. Take a look in the mirror Mr, Kettle,

It must be hell having all the evidence that your Cult is nothing more than a sham. I think that is why you so voraciously defend it. By doing so, you push the cog dis aside.

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

Regardless, I'll give you this little entry I made for a Mormon funeral I attended just recently - one of many.

-

I attended the funeral of a friend last night. Daniel had been a member of the Mormon Church his whole life, but being a practicing homosexual, he was resigned only to play the piano and sing in the choir. Three years ago Daniel moved to San Francisco. Two years ago he was diagnosed with AIDS but he refused to believe that he was infected. He put it out of his mind and continued to live - all the while his health began to decline. About six months ago, AIDS had ravaged his body and mind so badly, he no longer understood who he was or where he was. His father took a train out to SF and brought him home. At local hospitals again they reiterated that Daniel had AIDS and needed immediate AIDS treatment - again he refused. Over the last few days of his life he slipped into a coma and died peacefully there.

It was held in at a Mormon funeral home in Salt Lake City. Had the funeral been held in a Mormon Church, I would not have attended, but would have visited the family at their residence to convey my condolences. I have a strict rule now that I'm Ex-Mormon - I will never step foot in any Mormon Church or Mormon Conference Center and I have changed my will to reflect that upon my death, it will not be in a Mormon Church or under the direction of Mormon clergy.

Inside the home there was a large chapel and to my dismay, it looked and smelled exactly like all of the Utah Mormon Churches built in the early part of the 1970's. Cinder block walls painted white, wooden benches covered in fabric - everything reeking of cheapness. The cheapest, thinnest carpet you can buy that curbs up on the cinder block walls. Tacky, typical, Mormonism.

When I found a place to sit I noticed there were several scattered Mormon hymnbooks on the pews. At first I just pushed it aside and sat down, but then I got a wild hair, picked up the book, turned to page 242 and began twinkling my eyes. I hoped that when I opened them I'd be on Kolob but it alas, it never happened.

The funeral was presided over by a Mormon Bishop of the ward that Daniel lived in, although Daniel hadn't been to a meeting in years. I had to squint and close my eyes to keep myself from rolling them too much. The Bishop continued to spout off how he believed that Daniel had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and that Daniel was now in the loving arms of his Savior. I had forgotten the low, rolling speak that Mormons use when talking - that uninspired melodramatic “General Authority” speak that just makes you cringe. The Bishop went on and on about the marvelous Mormon Plan Of Salvation and that we should all be so greatful that we have it. Well, they seem to think they have it. Why can't these Mormons talk about the deceased and the accomplishments of the deceased? Why must they drone on and on about their church?

The best part of the meeting was seeing friends, family and neighbors speak about his life. Even though we were not really in a Mormon Church, everyone ended his or her best wishes with “In the name of Cheese and Rice, Amen”, or something like that. My God, I'm in a sacrament meeting...

It amazes me how much Mormons use funerals as proselytizing sessions. The attitudes are “isn't it wonderful that we're not depressed at funerals because we know so much about the afterlife.” The Bishop just went on and on about how wonderful the gospel was because they have the “One and True Church” and that the “Plan of Salvation” was so wonderful. I couldn't help but think that this man who died - of AIDS - who was a practicing homosexual - was everything this Mormon Church hated. The Mormon Prophet has spoken out against homosexuals that they “Have problems”. It was sad to know that deep down underneath it all, all the Mormons in the room quietly sat in disgust about the ices Daniel made in his life.

I kept my mouth shut. It wasn't my family, it wasn't my religion - and wasn't my place to make comments and I was careful not to let my disgust of Mormonism get in the way of the nice talks given by friends and family about Daniel's life.

So long Daniel.

-
Thanks for sharing. I see nothing in the story above that illustrates the premise of this post. It sounds like the Bishop was caring and compassionate and offered words of comfort based on his beliefs. He is LDS and so was the family. One should expect they will talk about Jesus, resurrection, the LDS belief on the purpose of life. It sounds like his friends and family were able to talk about the deceased and nobody prohibited them from doing so. So your story defeats your angry rant really.

Now I wonder once again how many LDS funerals you have been to or presided over? How about funerals from other faiths. I have attended Catholic funerals and many protestant ones. Guess what? They all have elements of their religion in the event. Catholics do a mass. Oh shame on them for doing such a religious thing at a Catholic funeral. The priest speaks about the savior and resurrections. Oh the horror. I friend of mine who is a devoted evangelical lost his 3 year old son. They talked about his son at the funeral. They talked about Jesus. The minister then did a repent and come to Jesus sermon at and told us all that the Child was in heaven but if there were people there that were not saved they were going straight to hell. He then did an alter call. Wow thought I. And people think LDS funerals are in your face. But hey, it was their service.

So Infintus, you really lose all around here and on this one is is clear this is just stick for you and you do not know what the hell you are talking about.