Bond...James Bond wrote:I've been doing research for a paper on the ERA and alot of the material I'm finding on it comes with some connection to the LDS Church. Anyone know why the LDS made such a big issue about the ERA?
My observation at the time was that the Church was trying to keep LDS women in their place, and the Church has (by and large) succeeded -- LDS women are 2nd class citizens to this day. The Church is doing the same with homosexuals in its high profile fight against gay marriage and other rights.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Blixa wrote:Do you remember the votes against things like tougher laws for child pornography?
I thought the laws against kiddy porn were already fairly rough. Furthermore it seems that judges and juries have zero toleration for that thing. I'm curious, but should we really always try to make laws tougher, or should we focus instead on more resources for the enforcement of existing laws? We could always try making the laws extra tough by giving kiddie porn peddlers a mandatory trip to the iron maiden, the rack, and maybe dull knife to be used in removing their eyes which they don't seem to control.
Seriously though, I think there can be a legitimate reason not to vote for tougher laws without somehow thinking that the laws should be more lenient or supporting of this extremely evil behavior. Still it does seem rather odd. Maybe there are some loopholes I wasn't aware of needed or need to closed.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Out of curiousity, what was lost to us today since the ERA did not pass?
Also, was the church right--would the ERA mean that gay marriage would have happened by now?
I'll never understand the fear of unisex bathrooms. You'd think with the church so worried about homosexual behavior that unisex bathrooms would be preferable. That way you wouldn't have to worry about toe-tapping republicans in airports.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
asbestosman wrote:I thought the laws against kiddy porn were already fairly rough. Furthermore it seems that judges and juries have zero toleration for that thing. I'm curious, but should we really always try to make laws tougher, or should we focus instead on more resources for the enforcement of existing laws? We could always try making the laws extra tough by giving kiddie porn peddlers a mandatory trip to the iron maiden, the rack, and maybe dull knife to be used in removing their eyes which they don't seem to control.
Seriously though, I think there can be a legitimate reason not to vote for tougher laws without somehow thinking that the laws should be more lenient or supporting of this extremely evil behavior. Still it does seem rather odd. Maybe there are some loopholes I wasn't aware of needed or need to closed.
This was in 1975, asbestos, at the Utah IWY conference. The conferences had a slate of resolutions that each state's attendees voted on. Basically they were just symbolic, but were an attempt to articulate "women's concerns." Some of the issues were things that conservative LDS women would obviously support and yet because they had been instructed to attend and vote down ALL the resolutions ironically they ended up voting against things like this.
One of the workshop sessions I attended was called something like "International Interdependence." The idea was to have local women who were from different countries talk about women's rights/the status of women in thier home nations. An Ethiopian friend of mine was speaking. Well, turned out nobody got to speak because before the session organizer could introduce the speakers some woman stood up in the audience and called for a "vote." This made no sense to any of us who were there to hear the speakers. Vote on what? But she was fronting an organized group who all stood up and made "measures" to vote on like, "We move that the United States be independent from all foriegn powers. Anyone second this motion?"
It was like a Bizarro Roberts Rules of Order nightmare. I think some of the ladies probably thought they were voting things into international law...
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
The bretheren appear to more protective of women in their divine roles than in any curtailing of freedoms which women already have.
Frankly your statement above creeps me out .. Protective ? More like puritanical.. Why do women need old white men to protect their "divine roles" which we know the brethern meant is to be baby making/raising machines ?? What a pile of bullsh*t ..
There are a whole lot of independent thinking LDS women who don't see it that way. I guess you're just not a mother who knows....
;)
You are right there.. just a father who is glad his daughter is now away from middle aged men prying into her personal life.
Blixa wrote:... some woman stood up in the audience and called for a "vote." This made no sense to any of us who were there to hear the speakers. Vote on what? But she was fronting an organized group who all stood up and made "measures" to vote on like, "We move that the United States be independent from all foriegn powers. Anyone second this motion?"
It was like a Bizarro Roberts Rules of Order nightmare. I think some of the ladies probably thought they were voting things into international law...
asbestosman wrote:I'll never understand the fear of unisex bathrooms. You'd think with the church so worried about homosexual behavior that unisex bathrooms would be preferable. That way you wouldn't have to worry about toe-tapping republicans in airports.
I know. Doesn't almost every marriage (man/woman team) use the same bathroom? (Bad for the ladies I'm sure, but still it's reality right?)
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
Blixa wrote:... some woman stood up in the audience and called for a "vote." This made no sense to any of us who were there to hear the speakers. Vote on what? But she was fronting an organized group who all stood up and made "measures" to vote on like, "We move that the United States be independent from all foriegn powers. Anyone second this motion?"
It was like a Bizarro Roberts Rules of Order nightmare. I think some of the ladies probably thought they were voting things into international law...
Was that Gail Ruzicka by any chance?
Heh. Who knows. Perhaps she was the lady in the hall who claimed that feminist arguments were a communist invention of the previous decade (the 60's). I asked her when she had last read Book Three of The Faerie Queen.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
harmony wrote:I was there for the International Women's Year gatherings in 1975. Very few things can bring me to tears about my past; that is one of the few. We were so idealistic, so pathetically uninformed. We followed so completely. I can still hear the sound of thousands of feet hitting the bleachers as we'd stand for the votes. We thought we were fighting godlessness. How incredibly lowering to find out much later that we actually were abetting it.
Good lord. I wonder if we spoke, harmony. I interviewed a lot of the LDS women there, talked to a lot of people. I was completely frightened by the spectacle---the ease with which this single-minded and obedient army had been generated.
If you were at any of the international workshops we more than surely met.
I was in a different state than Utah. The woman we followed like the sheep we were was a cousin of a woman in my ward. We'd never have known about the conference if it wasn't for the hoopdedo in Utah, but we soldiered on, driving our campers and pitching our tents, completely overwhelming the organizers, and rising in unison as our feet hit the bleachers. We were told we were fighting evil, an evil that was trying to claim our lives, to take our children away from us, to take away our way of life. Shoulder to shoulder we rose, thousands of us, voting "yes" or "no", depending on which card the woman from Utah raised.
We were lied to. And it wasn't until many many years later that we found out exactly how we'd been deceived. Some of us still bear the scars.
harmony wrote:I was there for the International Women's Year gatherings in 1975. Very few things can bring me to tears about my past; that is one of the few. We were so idealistic, so pathetically uninformed. We followed so completely. I can still hear the sound of thousands of feet hitting the bleachers as we'd stand for the votes. We thought we were fighting godlessness. How incredibly lowering to find out much later that we actually were abetting it.
Good lord. I wonder if we spoke, harmony. I interviewed a lot of the LDS women there, talked to a lot of people. I was completely frightened by the spectacle---the ease with which this single-minded and obedient army had been generated.
If you were at any of the international workshops we more than surely met.
I was in a different state than Utah. The woman we followed like the sheep we were was a cousin of a woman in my ward. We'd never have known about the conference if it wasn't for the hoopdedo in Utah, but we soldiered on, driving our campers and pitching our tents, completely overwhelming the organizers, and rising in unison as our feet hit the bleachers. We were told we were fighting evil, an evil that was trying to claim our lives, to take our children away from us, to take away our way of life. Shoulder to shoulder we rose, thousands of us, voting "yes" or "no", depending on which card the woman from Utah raised.
We were lied to. And it wasn't until many many years later that we found out exactly how we'd been deceived. Some of us still bear the scars.
An interesting story...you should write your experience up. Or have you?
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."