Ultimate prejudice?

[_Tarski]

Notice that the test is radically subjective and private, excludes epistemic peers merely on the basis of them not having faith in the very thing in question, includes no checks for self delusion and has no statisitical standards and no means of quantification.

In fact, this is nothing less than a recipe for self delusion and misattribution and misidentification of common subjective spiritual feelings that can occur at any time

On the contrary, it's a test that can be performed by everyone.

I didn't say it couldn't.

Everyone can ask the magic 8-ball too. That isn't the point!
Read my complaint again.

[_bcspace]

On the contrary, it's a test that can be performed by everyone.

I didn't say it couldn't.

Everyone can ask the magic 8-ball too. That isn't the point!
Read my complaint again.

Address my whole response (which I did edit so I can forgive you for the apparent selective quote).

[_Tarski]

Is this a scientific test?

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye want to know if string theory is true, if it be wisdom in God that ye learn of string theory, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall learn of string theory, I would exhort you that ye would ask Zeus, in the name of Ed Witten, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Ed, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of ESP.
5 And by the power of ESP ye may know the truth of all things.

[_bcspace]

Is this a scientific test?

Can statistics be applied and results be quantified?

[_Moniker]

There is a scientific test in Christian scripture?

Yes. Ask and ye shall receive, John 7:17, James 1:5 etc.

I don't even know where to look. Google! :)

Sheeesh:

This??

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

And this???

If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

I don't know what to say! So, I lack quite a BIT of wisdom -- lemme go ask God for some.... brb.... ;P

Why do you attempt to defend something with science that is based on faith?

Faith is evidence based.... Hebrews 11

I thought faith was belief in something with no proof!

I don't mean to be silly and flippant -- it's just odd for me. Sorry! Should leave thread now...

[_guy sajer]

Unreal and unscientific. You evince little understanding of actual science and the scientific method.

I'd love to see you try to make these arguments to an expert audience. THAT would be quite a show.

If you had any real logic or evidence against my response, you would not have gone off on a tangent.

No, that's perfectly on topic. You claim to have "science" on your side, yet if you tried to make these arguments to an audience of actual scientists, you would be laughed off the stage.

A good scientist makes distinctions between levels of probability in assessing this and that claim. Not all things that have yet to be disproved (as if there's some obligation to disprove fantastical assertions--one piece of evidence that you do not understand the scientific method) are equally probable. Lumping the Adam & Eve myth with all other yet to be disproved things in the world, as if they are are equal, is inappropriate and demonstrates a complete lack of real understanding.

Plus your example of Troy is completely inappropriate. Hypothesizing the existence of a city called Troy was not as incredible hypothesis as a man and woman placed naked in a garden called Eden by a God, who were immortal and innocent, until Eve was tempted by a talking snake and ate some forbidden fruit, at which point God cursed them, made them mortal, and cast them out of the garden, and then Adam and Even become the parents of the human race.

By the way, the existence of Troy is hardly evidence that Achilles chased Hector 3 times around the city walls, or that there was this big war with Greece city-states because some Trojan prince named Paris chose the goddess Aphrodite in a beauty contest over other goddesses.

Do you buy into this myth as well, seeing how all failed to be disproved myths are all equally probable?

[_asbestosman]

Notice that the test is radically subjective and private, excludes epistemic peers merely on the basis of them not having faith in the very thing in question, includes no checks for self delusion and has no statisitical standards and no means of quantification.

In fact, this is nothing less than a recipe for self delusion and misattribution and misidentification of common subjective spiritual feelings that can occur at any time.

I think part of it is that Moroni's promise assumes that you already accept that God exists and Jesus is the Christ.

I still think it may be possible for one to personally receive adequate assurance that something is correct without that being widely available to everybody. I know that I experience strange flashing stars of color in my vision occasionally, but I don't know that I could prove it to anybody. I don't even know anybody who experiences anything like I do in that sense. Also, while I won't experience it myself, I believe that women often experience hot flashes when they get older. I take it for granted that Iraq exists even though I am unlikely to ever go there. I take it for granted that Middle Earth doesn't exist even though New Zealand might make a promising location for it.

[_Jason Bourne]

If this was the case there coudl be no fall. No fall then no atonement.

My theory has never denied the Fall. I accept all LDS doctrine on the matter.

Like it or not what you espouse contradicts aposles and prophets.

When you find something, let me know.[/quote]

Elder Boyd K. Packer observed that if the theory of evolution applies to man, there was no fall and therefore no need for an atonement, nor a gospel of redemption, nor a redeemer (see "The Law and the Light," in The Book of Mormon, Jacob through Words of Mormon: To Learn with Joy, Fourth Annual Book of Mormon Symposium, 1988, p. 15). The matter is really quite simple. Because Adam was the son of divine parents, he had an immortal body without blood. The Fall caused blood to enter his veins. It was a blood fall that required a blood atonement. One cannot tamper with the story of the Fall without tampering with the story of Atonement. . . .

This is from an apostle and he directly contradicts you. He says Adam was the son of divince parents not some form of human that lacked a spirit that was a child of God.

[_bcspace]

Elder Boyd K. Packer observed that if the theory of evolution applies to man, there was no fall and therefore no need for an atonement, nor a gospel of redemption, nor a redeemer (see "The Law and the Light," in The Book of Mormon, Jacob through Words of Mormon: To Learn with Joy, Fourth Annual Book of Mormon Symposium, 1988, p. 15). The matter is really quite simple. Because Adam was the son of divine parents, he had an immortal body without blood. The Fall caused blood to enter his veins. It was a blood fall that required a blood atonement. One cannot tamper with the story of the Fall without tampering with the story of Atonement. . . .

This is from an apostle and he directly contradicts you. He says Adam was the son of divince parents not some form of human that lacked a spirit that was a child of God

1. Nondoctrinal reference.

2. How does my theory preclude Adam being the son of divine parents? LDS doctrine is that we all are sons and daughters of divine parents in that our spirits are the literal spirit children of God. How did God created the physical body of Adam? BY's opinion (often erroneously confused for an Adam-God doctrine) has no place in LDS doctrine and the JST on Luke 3:38 seems to preclude it.

[_Brackite]

There is absolutely no way that Adam's mother was a Neanderthal. All of the Neanderthals got extinct sometime between 28,000-22,000 B.C.E. (1) Adam and Eve are said to have lived sometime between 5,000-3,000 B.C.E. (2) Adam's mother (if he really had an earthly mother), would have lived sometime between 5,300-3,200 B.C.E. Adam's mother (if she really was in existence), would have lived sometime over 16,000 years after all of the Neanderthals got extinct. Therefore, There is absolutely no way that Adam's mother was a Neanderthal.

1. Please See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
And:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neandertha ... hypotheses

2. Please See:
http://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/timelineot.html
And:
http://scriptures.LDS.org/en/bd/chrono