Can Mormons Believe in Evolution? (Click here for the answer

[_Gazelam]

Ok, so we have established that the Fall brought death into the world... now lets look at why:

What is the state of being in the presence of God? 1 Cor. 15:50 states that "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". Therefore nothing in heaven has blood in it.

When Christ appeared and the disciples handled him, he stated" Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39) No blood there, just flesh and bone.

What Adam brought into the world with the Fall was blood. "The life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev. 17:11) The mortal body lives on only so long as the blood is present. Spill the blood and mortality ceases. Hence, flesh and blood means mortality. Mortality cannot inherit a celestial world, for that is the dwelling place of immortal incorruptable beings.

No blood, no corruption, no evolution.

[_Tal Bachman]

So Gaz

You agree with all of us evil people that, notwithstanding the fact that Mormons can, and very often do, believe all sorts of contradictory things, that LDS doctrine (as expressed in the FP statement, scriptures, etc.), stands in opposition to a Darwinian explanation for the origin of man?

If so, I'm impressed.

If that's where you are, let's team up here to try to help our lost brethren out of the mental mazes they're imprisoned in.

Why don't you give it a try with the BCSpace team? The rest of us could use a break. You might begin by trying to get Moksha, Harmony, and BC to admit that "'A' cannot equal 'not A'". But whatever, do your thang.

[_Gazelam]

I think Bro. McConkie does it very well in both the "Three Pillars of Eternity" and the "Seven Deadly Heresies" addresses given at BYU.

Heres an excerpt:

Heresy #2:There are those who believe that revealed religion and the theory of organic evolution can be harmonized.

This is both false and devilish. Yes, all truth is in agreement, and true religion and true science bear the same witness, Indeed, in the true and full sense, true science is part of true religion. But there is no way to harmonize the false religions of the Dark Ages with the truths of science as they have now been discovered. And there is no way to harmonize the revealed religion that has come to us with the theoretical postulates of Darwinism and the diverse speculations descending therefrom.

Do not be deceived and led to believe that the the famous document of the First Presidency issued in the days of President Joseph F. Smith and entitled "The Origin of Man" means anything except exactly what it says. The saving doctrine is that Adam stood next to Christ in power and might and intelligence before the foundations of the world were laid; that Adam was placed on this earth as an immortal being; that there was no death in the world for him or for any form of life until after the Fall..........

As he stated, all truth is in agreement. There is no reason to suppose that the "theoretical postualtes of Darwinism" are anything more than a theory.

[_Tal Bachman]

I think Bro. McConkie does it very well in both the "Three Pillars of Eternity" and the "Seven Deadly Heresies" addresses given at BYU.

there is no way to harmonize the revealed religion that has come to us with the theoretical postulates of Darwinism and the diverse speculations descending therefrom.

Do not be deceived and led to believe that the the famous document of the First Presidency issued in the days of President Joseph F. Smith and entitled "The Origin of Man" means anything except exactly what it says.

[/quote]

---So Gazelam, what would you say to guys like the BCSpace gang, who think people like you "just don't get it", and continue to claim there's no contradiction between Darwinism and LDS doctrine?

[_Gazelam]

---So Gazelam, what would you say to guys like the BCSpace gang, who think people like you "just don't get it", and continue to claim there's no contradiction between Darwinism and LDS doctrine?

I find their lack of faith disturbing.

[_harmony]

I answered it. I can't help what you believe. I'm not sure why you think LDS don't believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior of the world, but I'm sure if you ventured over to LDS.org, you'll find an adequate search engine that will help you understand where LDS come from, regarding that piece of absolute, eternal truth. I'm not required to do your research for you.

What - - in the HELL - - are you talking about? lol

I asked YOU - HARMONY - what YOU mean by the phrase "Jesus is the Christ".

No, you didn't. You went off on some snide side conversation about what Christ means. If you'd really wanted to know what I meant, you'd have asked what I meant, without the side conversation.

PS. Friends don't make comments like "haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?".

---It's tough love, friend. One day you might thank me for it! :P

Actually, you're about 10 years too late. I found out about Joseph long ago.

---Hey Harmony - I don't know if you're a boy or a girl, or how old you are, and - FINE - maybe my language is a tad too drill sergeant here - but let's be serious for a moment.

Perhaps you should find out a bit about someone, before you make unwarranted assumptions.

I'm a 55 year old woman. I'm not some star struck teeniebopper in awe over conversing with an apostate Mormon rock star on the internet. This isn't my first conversation about evolution, LDS beliefs, or whether or not Jesus is the Christ. And I already know what you know, and more, and less. And for the record, I grew up listening to your dad's music; I'm reserving judgment on yours until you get some more of it.

[_moksha]

Can you name one single Mormon doctrine, right now, which is absolutely, eternally true? Just one; and please be specific

That we should be Christ-like in our behavior. Now, you must understand that this truth for myself and many others. We consider it to be an eternal truth, even though you may not.

You also wanted further documentation on the Church's stand on evolution. Here is an article from the Deseret News"

No definitive LDS stance on evolution, study finds

By Carrie A. Moore
Deseret Morning News
Published: March 1, 2006

OREM — Despite characterizations by some Latter-day Saints that their theology eschews the theory of evolution, two LDS scientists say their church has no definitive position on whether humans evolved from earlier life forms.
William Evenson and Duane Jeffery told dozens of people gathered at Utah Valley State College on Tuesday that what definitely has evolved over time is the position taken by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the issue.

They came to that conclusion after dissecting the history of statements made by past LDS leaders at the request of former Brigham Young University president Rex Lee. In 1991, Lee asked Evenson — then dean of physical and mathematical sciences at BYU — to draft a document that could be given to students who routinely queried him on the church's position.

"There was a committee organized to put together a packet of materials. . . . The idea was to assemble those things that had some authority to represent the position of the LDS Church," Evenson said.

He and Jeffery collaborated, along with deans from other BYU departments, gathering and sifting through statements by church presidents, the LDS First Presidency and members of the church's Quorum of the Twelve.

...The two scientists have recently published their own book, "Mormonism and Evolution: the Authoritative LDS Statements," that includes the "BYU packet" along with a variety of other "authoritative statements."

One is by current LDS Church President Gordon B. Hinckley, quoted in a book by Larry A. Witham, "Where Darwin Meets the Bible: Creationists and Evolutionists in America."

"What the church requires is only belief 'that Adam was the first man of what we would call the human race.'" President Hinckley added that scientists can speculate on the rest, and recalled his own study of anthropology and geology, saying, "Studied all about it. Didn't worry me then. Doesn't worry me now."

http://deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/0,5223,635188399,00.html

[_bcspace]

BCSpace says: So where is your evidence that evolution conflicts with LDS doctrine? I've produced far more evidence to support my claim than you have supporting yours (none).

---Got me, BC. The Bachman ship goes down!

That's right. Your unwillingness to go doctrine by doctrine and address the answers I gave anyway shows a certain intellectual dishonesty.

Simply posting an FP quote and claiming it conflicts with my theory without explaining how or why is the height of such.

[_bcspace]

I think Bro. McConkie does it very well in both the "Three Pillars of Eternity" and the "Seven Deadly Heresies" addresses given at BYU

Besides being nondoctrinal, he doesn't do it at all.

Notice how he pussyfoots around actually stating that evolution is a heresy.....

Heresy two concerns itself with the relationship between organic evolution and revealed religion and asks the question whether they can be harmonized.

...The heresy is ??????

And after asking a serious of "can you harmonize" questions, he states...

These are questions to which all of us should find answers. Every person must choose for himself what he will believe. I recommend that all of you study and ponder and pray and seek light and knowledge in these and in all fields.

Nowhere does he state what is wrong with evolution. Like the FP statements, all he does is repeat LDS doctrine.

My reasoning causes me to conclude that if death has always prevailed in the world, then there was no fall of Adam that brought death to all forms of life; that if Adam did not fall, there is no need for an atonement; that if there was no atonement, there is no salvation, no resurrection, and no eternal life; and that if there was no atonement, there is nothing in all of the glorious promises that the Lord has given us. I believe that the Fall affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself, and that the atonement affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself.

I agree with his conclusion here and note that in no way does it conflict with evolution.

[_Tal Bachman]

No, you didn't. You went off on some snide side conversation about what Christ means. If you'd really wanted to know what I meant, you'd have asked what I meant, without the side conversation.

---I've been asking you what you meant. Why don't you answer?

Actually, you're about 10 years too late. I found out about Joseph long ago.

---You mean, you already know he made up his stories?

I'm a 55 year old woman

.

---Uh oh. No wonder we hit the wall here; I was talking Boy Language. Girl Language is a lot different.

I'm not some star struck teeniebopper

---Crap :P

And for the record, I grew up listening to your dad's music; I'm reserving judgment on yours until you get some more of it.

---It's not that great..