What is an ad hominem?

[_Sam Harris]

This thread was most definitely a trap. To get those who continuously abuse the word in question to see what an ad hom really is. Stop crying wolf. It's not okay to call a person out of self and expect to get away with it, and yet when you're asked to back up a claim (please forget Jersey Girl for a minute, this could be anyone asking anyone....ok...breathe...), you cry ad hom.

I've be on many a board, and NEVER EVER have I seen the term ad hominem used except when a person's character was being attacked. If you're being asked to back up a claim, or someone is saying they don't agree with what you're saying, they're not attacking you.

And people think I have thin skin...

My celestial experiment is done. Hopefully the wealth of knowledge that Marg and others posess can move forward without the word ad hom being thrown into every other post.

And once again, there are powers that be here. If you don't want me to be a mod, petition. I will not be offended if suspended, because honestly I could be resting instead of watching you two bander back and forth over this term. Now back to nursing my migraine, I just spent half the freaking day in an MRI machine with contrast dye burning in my small veins, and I'm a little irritated at the so-called intellectual pettiness right now.

[_Moniker]

I think Shades should tweak the board system so ad hom comes out as such ---> a* h**

Please?

[_marg]

This thread was most definitely a trap. To get those who continuously abuse the word in question to see what an ad hom really is. Stop crying wolf. It's not okay to call a person out of self and expect to get away with it, and yet when you're asked to back up a claim (please forget Jersey Girl for a minute, this could be anyone asking anyone....ok...breathe...), you cry ad hom.

I've be on many a board, and NEVER EVER have I seen the term ad hominem used except when a person's character was being attacked. If you're being asked to back up a claim, or someone is saying they don't agree with what you're saying, they're not attacking you.

And people think I have thin skin...

My celestial experiment is done. Hopefully the wealth of knowledge that Marg and others posess can move forward without the word ad hom being thrown into every other post.

And once again, there are powers that be here. If you don't want me to be a mod, petition. I will not be offended if suspended, because honestly I could be resting instead of watching you two bander back and forth over this term. Now back to nursing my migraine, I just spent half the freaking day in an MRI machine with contrast dye burning in my small veins, and I'm a little irritated at the so-called intellectual pettiness right now.

No one forced you to go through all the trouble of setting up a thread as a trap so you could piss on others. Your migraine has nothing to do with this.

[_Sam Harris]

I haven't pissed on you. I showed you it wasn't ok to attack others personally yet get upset when asked to back up a claim.

Let's wear the mantle of our maturity and knowledge, now...

[_marg]

I haven't pissed on you. I showed you it wasn't ok to attack others personally yet get upset when asked to back up a claim.

Let's wear the mantle of our maturity and knowledge, now...

What you showed me is you don't know what you are talking about when it comes the topic in this thread, that you are petty minded, you follow people around (myself) for the sole purpose of harassing including using vulgar language as you did in the off topic forum. And you even have the gaul to admit you set up a thread in the Celestial to I believe in your words "trap" people for the sole purpose of harassing them by attack.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'd like to take one more shot at straightening this out. Here is a repost of a post I made in response to Sam Harris on this thread that was intended to clarify:

It is not an ad hominem to attack someone's sources. If your sources are BS, then your sources are BS, and it would behoove you to find sources that are not. I'm not splitting hairs with you two.

Who has abused your person on here? As a mod...I want to know.

Since my words are being bandied about on this thread, I feel compelled to straighten out this mess. Here is the quote in question:

"I can already tell from your posts that you rely on skeptic sites and have not engaged the material yourself. I've been engaging and engaged by skeptics for years and I know exactly what you're going to present to me before you present it.

The question here is not whether or not I "know this stuff" the question is whether or not you are willing to support your regurgitations of the skeptic material that is the basis for your unsupported assertions."

Now, let me post it again and show you where the attack on the person/ ad hom is by bolding it:

"I can already tell from your posts that you rely on skeptic sites and have not engaged the material yourself. I've been engaging and engaged by skeptics for years and I know exactly what you're going to present to me before you present it.

The question here is not whether or not I "know this stuff" the question is whether or not you are willing to support your regurgitations of the skeptic material that is the basis for your unsupported assertions."

I didn't attack his sources, per se, because in those exchanges, he didn't offer sources for his claims. You cannot say that I called BS on his sources when he didn't supply any in those exchanges.

What I did do, was attack his person by implying that he wasn't able to support his assertions. And I will say again, I didn't intend it as ad hom, though technically it is.

Okay, now let me try to make some last comments here and try to hit all the bases I see and those that I see as a possibility and then get off this thread. I need to do this in list form as "points" to convey my so called thoughts on the matter, speaking only for myself now:

1. There is no question that the remarks I made to GoodK can be considered ad hom.
2. The objection raised on the thread and also on this thread is an ad hom attributed to me.
3. I don't care of an ad hom attributed to me is singled out. Honestly, I couldn't possibly care less.
4. The 15 page thread of origin contains ad homs made by other posters. Again, I don't care if one that I made is singled out. I
have no intention of sifting through 15 pages to dig out other ad homs in order to play endless tit for tat here. If my skin were
that thin, I wouldn't be posting on this board.

I understand that it may be frustrating for people to see others go around and around on something, but in my view, that's how it goes on a lengthy thread. People hit stumbling blocks and smack them around until they are ready to move forward and eventually, the thread goes back on topic and moves forward or reaches it's natural conclusion. It's just the nature of the beast.

I think I'm done on this thread now. Just don't count on it!

[_marg]

This is what I'm talking about re: this woman, Sam Harris harassing me.

She follows me to a thread to use vulgar language and viciously attack. I point out she's a reason I don't want threads moved to the Terrestial. Apparently she's got her shorts in a knot and she continues her attacks in the Celestial. This is just utter crap that this sort of thing goes on here, by a mod no less.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=137246&highlight=#137246

[_Sam Harris]

This is what I'm talking about re: this woman, Sam Harris harassing me.

She follows me to a thread to use vulgar language and viciously attack. I point out she's a reason I don't want threads moved to the Terrestial. Apparently she's got her shorts in a knot and she continues her attacks in the Celestial. This is just utter crap that this sort of thing goes on here, by a mod no less.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=137246&highlight=#137246

At this point, you can report if you feel there is a problem. Money, meet mouth.

Celestial used to be a place where folks could come and talk about their spiritual experiences before you and JAK derailed every single thread because you don't believe in spirituality. Now no one comes here to talk about these things.

I don't care enough about you to attack you, so stop it with that. I set a snare which GoodK walked right into. I wanted a definition of what ad hominem was, you two brought Jersey Girl into it and derailed the thread. If you see a problem Marg, report me, darlin!

And us mods here get to speak as mods...and then as people. I don't like the way you treat folk on here, and I don't have to bite my tongue because I'm a mod. If you had your way, this forum would be a place where only you and your two friends would play uninterrrupted by dissenting voices. I'm not having that.

[_Sam Harris]

It is obvious that we have people on these boards who neither know the purpose of the different levels of discussion, nor do they care. They have their agendas, and let you cross that, there is a problem.

I've watched people come on here to relay spiritual experiences, only to see the people who are crying abuse the most here completely derail those threads to the point that for a while the celestial forum died. YOU MARG, in your intial contact with me on this board had the nerve to try to force me to be politically correct on a subject that had not a thing to do with you.

If you feel I'm harrassing you and abusing my powers as a mod...email Shades and ask him to do something about it. Stop the public wailing.

[_GoodK]

This is what I'm talking about re: this woman, Sam Harris harassing me.

She follows me to a thread to use vulgar language and viciously attack. I point out she's a reason I don't want threads moved to the Terrestial. Apparently she's got her shorts in a knot and she continues her attacks in the Celestial. This is just utter crap that this sort of thing goes on here, by a mod no less.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=137246&highlight=#137246

At this point, you can report if you feel there is a problem. Money, meet mouth.

Celestial used to be a place where folks could come and talk about their spiritual experiences before you and JAK derailed every single thread because you don't believe in spirituality. Now no one comes here to talk about these things.

I don't care enough about you to attack you, so stop it with that. I set a snare which GoodK walked right into. I wanted a definition of what ad hominem was, you two brought Jersey Girl into it and derailed the thread. If you see a problem Marg, report me, darlin!

And us mods here get to speak as mods...and then as people. I don't like the way you treat folk on here, and I don't have to bite my tongue because I'm a mod. If you had your way, this forum would be a place where only you and your two friends would play uninterrrupted by dissenting voices. I'm not having that.

I walked into your trap???!

As Marg so graciously pointed out, all you have done is demonstrate that you are petty minded and can't follow along, be civil in internet discussion boards, behave like a fair moderator, or grasp the concept of ad hominem. The person you were supposedly defending, Jersey Girl, admitted to using ad homs... thus spoiling your little "trap" and contradicting the lousy blow-hard post you've made, with the intent of trying to stir the pot.

You had nothing constructive to add nor have I ever seen you have something constructive to add, and now you are feverishly (and shamelessly) trying to save face. It's a sad sight to see... hows that foot taste?

Ouch.

PS. Apology accepted.

The only mod request I will make is that you stay down in the lower kingdoms, where you OBVIOUSLY belong.