God -- A Personal Servant?

Post by **_Moniker** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:34 pm

When those who worship God expect something in return does this make God a personal servant?

To worship anything is to adore and love it -- not necessarily expecting a quid pro quo arrangement. Yet, in the realm of religions it often appears as though worship is not pure selfless love -- there is something expected in return. Do we want rain for our crops? Do I want to win the lottery? Do I want my team to win this game? Do I want my child to not succumb to this illness? Do I want relief of some sort? Do I want others to have relief of some sort? Do I want to ensure that I am given the great reward of heaven? Do I want to feel loved? Do I want to curse an enemy? Do I want forgiveness? Do I want meaning? Do I want...on and on...

So, for those that say they truly love God why is there a need to ask for something in return? Is this truly love -- truly worship? Or rather is it a different kind of love -- a selfish kind where God is loved through worship but only with the expectation of a reward?

Are we are expected to be selfless when it comes to loving and worshiping God? If this is the case then why is anything ever asked of God, or expected of God?

Who is the servant and who is the master?

Post by **_Roger Morrison** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:54 pm

Hi Moniker, a good question. My answer: "Cuz most prayerful religious folks, "...know not "God"..." to quote his # 1 son." In THE book Jesus is said to have said, "...ya don't have to ask "God" for anything...'He' knows what ya need before ya even ask..." Like air & water (h2o) and all other life sustaining stuff. Jesus also "said" to pray in secret, IF you're going to do it, THEN "God" will "...reward you openly..."

That way, when you/we see someone who is REALLY blessed, it is obvious that THEY pray in secret. The others?? One guess is as good as another, cuz "God" has no favourites and works according to universal/natural laws... It is VERY unfortunate that Theologians don't pay more attention to "A-Theologians" who study the workings-of-"God" rather than the imagined, "words-of-God" to primitives of the past.

While it does say, "... ask...seek...knock...find..." I respectfully suggest: "ask" yourself what you 'want'. "Knock" on the correct doors of knowlege/understanding. "Seek" in probable places. And, with diligence, you'll probably "find", IF you are smart, & lucky :-) Warm regards, Roger

Post by **_beastie** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:27 pm

This bothered me when I first left the church but still believed in God. I talked to various believers about it, and some assured me that their own particular religious tradition did NOT include asking God to do certain things, to give certain things, but rather they were taught simply to worship God through prayer and accept God's will.

Part of what bugged me about asking God to intervene was the whole qualifier 'thy will be done". Why bother to ask God to change the course of life? Isn't the course of life itself his "will"?

Anyway, the way many religions approach God reminds me of some sort of mafia organization, wherein the peons are asked to demonstrate loyalty and obedience in exchange for the largess of the "don".

Post by **_Moniker** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:43 pm

beastie wrote:
Anyway, the way many religions approach God reminds me of some sort of mafia organization, wherein the peons are asked to demonstrate loyalty and obedience in exchange for the largess of the "don".

Ha! I just envisioned God as some some sweaty, beer bellied, wife beater shirt wearing, overlord that doles out this and that to those that are most worthy. Not a good visual -- I wish I'd envisioned him with a nice Zoot suit and fedora hat -- but, no...

Post by **_bcspace** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:56 am

Who is the servant and who is the master?

Well, it is true that "Ask and ye shall receive." But there are caveats....

And whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is right, believing that ye shall receive, behold it shall be given unto you. 3 Nephi 18:20

Therefore, God is the master and we are the servants.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:36 am

From the Bible Dictionary in the LDS Scriptures:

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are his children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7: 7-11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work, and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.

Prayer helps us to remember that we are dependent on God. A very important part in LDS prayers is to thank God for that which we have.

Post by **_Roger Morrison** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:09 am

bcspace wrote:
Who is the servant and who is the master?

Well, it is true that "Ask and ye shall receive." But there are caveats....

And whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is right, believing that ye shall receive, behold it shall be given unto you. 3 Nephi 18:20

Therefore, God is the master and we are the servants.

Are you sure? In reality it seems the asker/demander is the master, the grantor/order-taker is the servant... In THE book it is said, "...the greatest shall be the servant of all..."

"God" (THE greatest) is the provider, (servant) serving without prejudice all who by intelligence or luck click the correct key to the attached fruit. As any scientist/R&D-person depends.

Just the way it is. Religion, &/or belief-in-God, have nothing to do with being a recipient of "God's"/life's blessings...

For that we can, "thank-God" :-) Warm regards, Roger

Post by **_bcspace** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:14 am

Who is the servant and who is the master?

Well, it is true that "Ask and ye shall receive." But there are caveats....

And whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is right, believing that ye shall receive, behold it shall be given unto you. 3 Nephi 18:20

Therefore, God is the master and we are the servants.

Are you sure? In reality it seems the asker/demander is the master, the grantor/order-taker is the servant... In THE book it is said, "...the greatest shall be the servant of all..."

Yep. Quite sure. There is also Matthew 7:11. From whom do these boons come from?

"God" (THE greatest) is the provider, (servant) serving without prejudice all who by intelligence or luck click the correct key to the attached fruit.

Who determines if what is asked for is right and if one believes?

As any scientist/R&D-person depends.

Ah yes. Whatever it is, it must be gold or platinum plated. I know that world.

Post by **_Roger Morrison** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:03 am

bcs said: into which i'll inject in bold.

Yep. Quite sure. There is also Matthew 7:11. From whom do these boons come from? RM: Can they come from other than a grantor/giver/servant?

Quote:
"God" (THE greatest) is the provider, (servant) serving without prejudice all who by intelligence or luck click the correct key to the attached fruit.

Who determines if what is asked for is right and if one believes? RM: "The law, irrevocally decreed in heaven..." water freezes at 32 degrees fahrenheit. Whether--no pun intended--it is believed or not. "As you plant, so shall you reap." Farmers depend on it. As well do parents.

Quote:
As any scientist/R&D-person depends.

Ah yes. Whatever it is, it must be gold or platinum plated. I know that world. RM: Sorry, i don't know what you are refering to?? Explain please.

Could be we are thinking in different terms? You religiously, me practically. To use your thought, "practical is the world I know" and depend on. Roger

Post by **_bcspace** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:11 am

Yep. Quite sure. There is also Matthew 7:11. From whom do these boons come from?

RM: Can they come from other than a grantor/giver/servant?

Who controls what is given and whether the caveats I listed from scripture are met?

Who determines if what is asked for is right and if one believes?

RM: "The law, irrevocally decreed in heaven..." water freezes at 32 degrees fahrenheit. Whether--no pun intended--it is believed or not. "As you plant, so shall you reap." Farmers depend on it. As well do parents.

Who determines if the law was followed? Who makes the blessings possible in the first place?

As any scientist/R&D-person depends.

Ah yes. Whatever it is, it must be gold or platinum plated. I know that world.

RM: Sorry, I don't know what you are refering to?? Explain please.

My schooling and profession are scientific. In that world, if you want your project to be fully funded but have to explain to a manager who knows nothing of science and engineering, you just tell him it needs to be very shiny, coated with gold and other precious metals. Probably more of an inside joke.....

Congratulations in advance on your impending godhood. I'm going to bed.