harmony wrote:Some interesting statistics from the National Institute of Chemical Dependency, last updated Mar 5, 2008:
Illicit drug use, over 18: UT: 7.36% AK highest at 12.4% National average: 7.76%
Cocaine use in past month, over 18: UT: 2.46% DC highest at 3.62% National average: 2.39%
Nonmedical use of pain relievers in past year, over 18: UT: 6.31% UT is 1st National average: 4.49%
Alcohol use in last month, over 18: UT: 32.5% Connecticut: 65.91% National average: 55.02%
Binge alcohol use in past month, over 18: UT: 17.38% ND: 33.33% National average: 24.13%
Serious psychological distress in past year, over 18: UT: 14.58% WV: 15.29% National average: 11.63%
Having at least one depressive episode in past year, over 18: UT: 10.14% UT is 1st National average: 7.65%
Source: SAMHSA, Office of Applied Studies, National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2006
These are the most up to date statistics there are. Now what conclusions can we draw?
Harmony,
I'm constrained by time so will have to promise to look at the data a bit more closely tomorrow.
Until then, two observations. These statistics are for ages 18 and over. I'm more specifically interested in children between the ages of 11-17. Another is my curiousity about how they get these statistics. In Utah, at least, a lot of the drug abuse goes unreported in the juvenile system as most of the offenders who are caught are processed through a drug court or enter pleas of abeyance so that their drug history is not a matter of official record.
Last edited by cinepro on Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I think one of the great mysteries of the gospel is that anyone still believes it." Sethbag, MADB, Feb 22 2008
harmony wrote:You both might try to expand your vision past the addict themselves to include the parents and families who have struggled for so long with a demon that controls the child they love.
Which you seem to have sidelined in favor of blaming the parents for not loving their children unconditionally. Yes, this is a problem. No, there is no easy fix.
HELLO!!! MCFLY!! Did you not read my post? I AM one of those parents!!!! Addiction has touched my family!! I worry every day that I will get that phone call! I worry endlessly that there will be a relapse! I've lost one daughter who was a teenager, I know all too well how that feels. I pray every day that i won't lose another.
You amaze me, Harmony. You haven't a clue.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who cold not hear the music. ----Nietzche
You know, these forums can be a challenge to communicate on. We all have our experiences, and it is impossible to really know where the other is coming from. It seems prudent to try not to judge the other's attitude and intentions.
What I know is my experience, and a little of my fiance Tori's. We've lived here in Zion most of our lives. Outside of a mission to Japan, and about 6 years of professional training in the bay area of California, I've lived in Utah. I will admit I'm no expert in how the church culture impacts those in "the mission field." But there are some areas I know all too well.
After an injury (and subsequent surgery) in the early 90s, I found myself physically addicted to pain pills. I also found that the pills really helped me (the term I used at the time) to deal with other stresses in my life then. I slept better, spoke with less nervousness (I was a speaker for my profession as an eye doctor quite frequently then), and felt "entitled" to use these drugs as relief for other serious stresses in my life. I had learned of the false church claims, and had my moral and ethical undation stripped out from under me. For a time, I had a very unhealhy attitude of victimization, and felt entitled to a little relief from my challenges through the use (and illegal acquisition of) of drugs.
It took many years of therapy, a few rehabs, loss of my professional license, bankruptcy, divorce, and criminal convictions for me to hit a bottom that I needed to finally get it. I an odd sort of way, it was that bottom when I felt the most free I had up to that point in my life.
The road back was challenging. The only decent job I could get was in the addiction field. I worked for a wilderness program where I got my addictions certificate. I then worked for a few inpatient and outpatient programs here in SLC, specializing in opiate addiction treatment. I'm not really one of those metaphysical types that believes in the whole "everything happens for a reason," but if I did, I was a living example of it. I needed, and am grateful for everything that has happened to me. The simplest pleasure and beauty of the earth brings tears to my eyes today.
Almost miraculously, after getting my optometry license back a few years ago, I have ended up with (ooo, hate this word today...) "blessings" beyond my comprehension. My kids have survived the ordeal amazingly well, I have the most amazng and beautiful woman in my life today...and we'll be married in less than three months. I have two kids getting married to wonderful partners also over the next few months -- and I can afford to pay my share of the weddings!
Because of all my experiences, I volunteer to help a few people that ask for my help. Yes, I have some strong opinions about the root cause of addictions. Many factors impact the development of addictions. As I said earlier, they involve a person's ability to love him or herself. There is much we can all do to hep people around us feel loved and worthy. It starts by open and honest communication, and sincere compassion for other's plights.
This movie is one step to open some hearts. Once again, I encourage everybody who can to see it...and go in with an attitude of "what can I learn from this to help others," rather than what is wrong with it.
My 2 1/2 cents.
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche
thestyleguy wrote:Harmony: what are your thoughts on primary sources and secondary sources: you seem to discount personal experiences.
Personal experiences are helpful, as far as they go. But what happens when my personal experiences differ radically from someone else's? Whose is valid? Whose isn't?
My experience is the exact opposite of others' on this thread. So does that mean my experiences, in my family, my ward, my stake, my area aren't valid? Because those experiences didn't take place in Utah? I'm not saying my experiences are valid and that others' experiences aren't. I'm saying mine differ from others' and my passion is as valid as anyone else's.
harmony wrote:Some interesting statistics from the National Institute of Chemical Dependency, last updated Mar 5, 2008:
Illicit drug use, over 18: UT: 7.36% AK highest at 12.4% National average: 7.76%
Cocaine use in past month, over 18: UT: 2.46% DC highest at 3.62% National average: 2.39%
Nonmedical use of pain relievers in past year, over 18: UT: 6.31% UT is 1st National average: 4.49%
Alcohol use in last month, over 18: UT: 32.5% Connecticut: 65.91% National average: 55.02%
Binge alcohol use in past month, over 18: UT: 17.38% ND: 33.33% National average: 24.13%
Serious psychological distress in past year, over 18: UT: 14.58% WV: 15.29% National average: 11.63%
Having at least one depressive episode in past year, over 18: UT: 10.14% UT is 1st National average: 7.65%
Source: SAMHSA, Office of Applied Studies, National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2006
These are the most up to date statistics there are. Now what conclusions can we draw?
Harmony,
I'm constrained by time so will have to promise to look at the data a bit more closely tomorrow.
Until then, two observations. These statistics are for ages 18 and over. I'm more specifically interested in children between the ages of 11-17. Another is my curiousity about how they get these statistics. In Utah, at least, a lot of the drug abuse goes unreported in the juvenile system as most of the offenders who are caught are processed through a drug court or enter pleas of abeyance so that their drug history is not a matter of official record.
If the drug abuse goes unreported, as you say, how does anyone know if it's a lot or not a lot?
We can only deal with the data that is available. Anything else is anecdotal only. I put up valid stats from an official source. I'd like to see a discussion of these stats, and compare these stats to the stats from the OP. If someone else has other stats, I'd like to see those too.
harmony wrote:You both might try to expand your vision past the addict themselves to include the parents and families who have struggled for so long with a demon that controls the child they love.
Which you seem to have sidelined in favor of blaming the parents for not loving their children unconditionally. Yes, this is a problem. No, there is no easy fix.
HELLO!!! MCFLY!! Did you not read my post? I AM one of those parents!!!! Addiction has touched my family!! I worry every day that I will get that phone call! I worry endlessly that there will be a relapse! I've lost one daughter who was a teenager, I know all too well how that feels. I pray every day that I won't lose another.
You amaze me, Harmony. You haven't a clue.
That wasn't my point, Tori. My point was Rick views addiction from the point of view of the addicted, and blames Mormon culture, including Mormon parents, for much of the problem. There are others involved in the life of every addict, who also pray every day for the same thing you do. His point of view castigated them for not giving enough unconditional love to their children. Do I have to quote him, in order to make my point again?
Bishopric wrote:in my opinion much of the problem comes from a two-faced approach to the professed principle of unconditional love. From the pulpits, it is taught and encouraged. In the trenches of the community, it is not lived. Anybody who strays from the cultural norms of belief or lifestyle is judged and avoided as if they have the plague.
He blames the parents, the culture, the church... everyone but the addict.
I'm sorry you lost a child. There is nothing more painful. But even that cannot be laid at the door of the church, nor can it be laid solely at the foot of the parents. Until the buck stops at the addict, there will be no solution to the problem.
Do you honestly believe that Utah county is the worst county for this problem in the whole country? If you think that, you are the one who hasn't a clue.
Harmony: there is a lot of abuse that occurs inside the church and from church culture. They don't have a lot of good boundaries. They remind you all the time as to what a good person is and a put a lot of pressure on the youth to be the perfect person. The temple marriage, marrying only a Mormon, for males not having sex until you are at least twenty one years old if you follow rules. A lot of this causes good young people to lie. Most of my friends lied about the life they were living. The church gives adoring history to the members of the church and the members give adoring history right back to the church because if they don't they risk isolation and shame. The only good thing that comes from my experience in life is that what goes around comes around and the suppression of history and shaming members is going to come full circle and when it does you will see a billion dollar corporation come crashing down.
BishopRic wrote:You know, these forums can be a challenge to communicate on. We all have our experiences, and it is impossible to really know where the other is coming from. It seems prudent to try not to judge the other's attitude and intentions.
Agreed. And it also helps if we not jump to conclusions about others' intentions or the validity of their experiences. If we could stick with the stats, that would probably be a good idea, and allow the personal anecdoates to support the stats.
What I know is my experience, and a little of my fiance Tori's. We've lived here in Zion most of our lives. Outside of a mission to Japan, and about 6 years of professional training in the bay area of California, I've lived in Utah. I will admit I'm no expert in how the church culture impacts those in "the mission field." But there are some areas I know all too well.
Well, the church, and Mormon culture, is the same out here in the mission field as it is behind the Zion Curtain. It's just that the ward influence is less because the rest of the world's influence is more. So while the Mormon culture is alive and well within the ward here, it doesn't spill over into the rest of life very much, whereas in Utah, Mormon culture overrides other influences because you never get away from it.
thestyleguy wrote:Harmony: there is a lot of abuse that occurs inside the church and from church culture. They don't have a lot of good boundaries. They remind you all the time as to what a good person is and a put a lot of pressure on the youth to be the perfect person. The temple marriage, marrying only a Mormon, for males not having sex until you are at least twenty one years old if you follow rules. A lot of this causes good young people to lie. Most of my friends lied about the life they were living. The church gives adoring history to the members of the church and the members give adoring history right back to the church because if they don't they risk isolation and shame. The only good thing that comes from my experience in life is that what goes around comes around and the suppression of history and shaming members is going to come full circle and when it does you will see a billion dollar corporation come crashing down.
And yet from my experience, we have the same church teachings and the same church culture as you do, but not one child in my ward has been lost to drug addiction, suicide, or a porn addiction like yours in the last 37 years. Not one. We've had a few teenage pregnancies, a few kids busted at keggers, one adult addicted to mouthwash, and one adult suicide. So these same pressures exist in my own ward, and no one is addicted or suicidal. Why do you suppose that is?