For BCSpace re literal

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_ludwigm
_Emeritus
Posts: 10158
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am

Post by _ludwigm »

bcspace wrote:
Principal? Literal? Horse?

Should I tell You simpler words? We can find examples to redefinition of black and white. Or was it only private opinion of the Lord's anointed?

I think most of you understand exactly what is meant by being a literal spirit child of God.


For me, who I am a miserable East-European, whose third language is english:
Dictionary: literal (lĭt'ər-əl)
adj.
1. Being in accordance with, conforming to, or upholding the exact or primary meaning of a word or words.
2. Word for word; verbatim: a literal translation.
3. Avoiding exaggeration, metaphor, or embellishment; factual; prosaic: a literal description; a literal mind.
4. Consisting of, using, or expressed by letters: literal notation.
5. Conforming or limited to the simplest, nonfigurative, or most obvious meaning of a word or words.
(http://www.answers.com/topic/literal)

Has You one more definition?
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Top
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Post by _bcspace »

Has You one more definition?


Have you any examples where I might have deviated from those definitions?

Again you seem to be confusing process with end result. A horse is a horse. A spirit child of God is a spirit child of God. Nothing is implied about how they came into being either sexually, artificially, or (and some of you will enjoy this) a wizard did it.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
Top
_ludwigm
_Emeritus
Posts: 10158
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am

Post by _ludwigm »

bcspace wrote:
Has You one more definition?
Have you any examples where I might have deviated from those definitions?

Again you seem to be confusing process with end result. A horse is a horse. A spirit child of God is a spirit child of God. Nothing is implied about how they came into being either sexually, artificially, or (and some of you will enjoy this) a wizard did it.

"you seem to be confusing process with end result"
- as I am not english-speaker and have to understand the words to translate them then understand the whole sentence

"A horse is a horse."
- or is a tapir or is a deer

"A spirit child of God is a spirit child of God"
- god/God/GOD/g_d had sex with a spirit female who gave birth of a spirit child, both of them was the proper organs to do it. Or please redefine "literal" !
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Top
_Tarski
_Emeritus
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:57 pm

Post by _Tarski »

bcspace wrote:
Principal? Literal? Horse?

Should I tell You simpler words? We can find examples to redefinition of black and white. Or was it only private opinion of the Lord's anointed?


I think most of you understand exactly what is meant by being a literal spirit child of God.


I have no idea what it means if you say it is a spirit, and I think you don't either.
It seems to me that a literal child is what happens when an animal has sex with another animal and then an ovum is fertilized, it grows, and a then a physical animal is born from the womb and this animal is genetically related to the parents.
The process is the only criteria for being a literal child.
If an animal comes about by magic, by star trek transporter technology, or Frankensteinian technology, or whatever, then it is not a literal child.
At the very least the genetics has to derive by natural a process from the genes of the parents. Without this the words literal child make no sense.

Futhermore, since God is supposed to have a glorified human body, it stands to reason that any literal offspring would be physical humans with physical bodies (perhaps "glorified").

The very notion a literal spirit child of a physical God of flesh and bones makes no sense to me.

Futhermore, aren't we supposed to be the handiwork of God? You can't be a literal child and handiwork at the same time. My son is not my handiwork.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
Top
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Post by _bcspace »

"A spirit child of God is a spirit child of God"
- god/God/GOD/g_d had sex with a spirit female who gave birth of a spirit child, both of them was the proper organs to do it. Or please redefine "literal" !


No need. Is a child conceived in a test tube still a literal child of it's parents? It is not english you guys are having trouble with, it's your preconceived (pun intended) notions.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
Top
_Tarski
_Emeritus
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:57 pm

Post by _Tarski »

bcspace wrote:
"A spirit child of God is a spirit child of God"
- god/God/GOD/g_d had sex with a spirit female who gave birth of a spirit child, both of them was the proper organs to do it. Or please redefine "literal" !


No need. Is a child conceived in a test tube still a literal child of it's parents? It is not english you guys are having trouble with, it's your preconceived (pun intended) notions.


Only because we understand the physical genetic process and its relation to the normative case of natural reproduction.
What is the normative case for heavenly beings bearing spirit children? We need a basis for the use of the word literal.
(You aren't going to go to the test tube just to avoid sex between heavenly parents are you?)

One point is that if God has a physical body then reproduction should lead to a physical offspring.

By the way, what the heck does spiritual mean in this context? Is it opposed to physical? In what way?? Do spirits have shape, mass, or occupy space? Words are fast losing all meaning.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
Top
_Brackite
_Emeritus
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:12 am

Post by _Brackite »

bcspace wrote:


And as a side note for a related issue ("The Devil is your brother!?" question)...

Satan. The devil is the enemy of righteousness and of those who seek to do the will of God. He is literally a spirit son of God and was at one time an angel in authority in the presence of God (Isa. 14: 12; 2 Ne. 2: 17). However, he rebelled in the premortal life and persuaded a third part of the spirit children of the Father to rebel with him (D&C 29: 36; Moses 4: 1-4; Abr. 3: 27-28). They were cast out of heaven, were denied the opportunity of obtaining mortal bodies and experiencing mortal life, and will be eternally damned. Since the time the devil was cast out of heaven, he has sought constantly to deceive all men and women and lead them away from the work of God in order to make all mankind as miserable as he is (Rev. 12: 9; 2 Ne. 2: 27; 9: 8-9).

Guide To The Scriptures - Devil



Well, is it your belief then that Satan is a spirit child of God, Yet the mother of Adam was not a spirit child of God?
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
Top
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Post by _bcspace »

Only because we understand the physical genetic process and its relation to the normative case of natural reproduction.
What is the normative case for heavenly beings bearing spirit children? We need a basis for the use of the word literal.


We already have it. The problems remains that you are confusing the process with the end result.

(You aren't going to go to the test tube just to avoid sex between heavenly parents are you?)


No. I have no problem with the notion of physical bodies or spirit bodies having sex to produce offspring in the heavens.

One point is that if God has a physical body then reproduction should lead to a physical offspring.


Yes. But we don't have enough information on the process (except the word 'organize') to make that judgement and it doesn't speak one way or the other about being a literal child of God.

By the way, what the heck does spiritual mean in this context? Is it opposed to physical? In what way?? Do spirits have shape, mass, or occupy space?


We know that spirit is matter.

Words are fast losing all meaning.


Preconceived notions are being destroyed which is probably why you erroneously feel this way.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
Top
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Post by _bcspace »

Well, is it your belief then that Satan is a spirit child of God, Yet the mother of Adam was not a spirit child of God?


Yes. How is that a problem? Is the spirit of a dolphin, or a horse, or an ape, or a neanderthal a literal spirit child of God?
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
Top
_Brackite
_Emeritus
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:12 am

Post by _Brackite »

bcspace wrote:
Well, is it your belief then that Satan is a spirit child of God, Yet the mother of Adam was not a spirit child of God?


Yes. How is that a problem? Is the spirit of a dolphin, or a horse, or an ape, or a neanderthal a literal spirit child of God?


Well, As I have already Pointed out in another Post, on another discussion thread here, that the mother of Adam could Not have been a Neanderthal. Here is that Post again here:

There is absolutely no way that Adam's mother was a Neanderthal. All of the Neanderthals got extinct sometime between 28,000-22,000 B.C.E. (1) Adam and Eve are said to have lived sometime between 5,000-3,000 B.C.E. (2) Adam's mother (if he really had an earthly mother), would have lived sometime between 5,300-3,200 B.C.E. Adam's mother (if she really was in existence), would have lived sometime over 16,000 years after all of the Neanderthals got extinct. Therefore, There is absolutely no way that Adam's mother was a Neanderthal.

1. Please See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
And:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neandertha ... hypotheses

2. Please See:
http://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/timelineot.html
And:
http://scriptures.LDS.org/en/bd/chrono
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Terrestrial Forum”