harmony wrote:BishopRic wrote:harmony wrote:Tori wrote:I give up.
Why? Because I don't agree? Because you think I don't get it? Because I see a different source for your problem, so I am automatically wrong?
Good grief.
No, I think it is because you are not getting what we are trying to say. If you think there is nothing in the church culture that creates significant guilt, shame, lack of self-worth, and/or lack of feeling accepted and loved as they are, then I think you are mistaken. There is much within that statement that the church can change and emphasize that will help improve the homes to give the message that the kids and spouses can talk to the others about their problems in a more open and less judgmental way. That's all.
I never said the church doesn't create all those things you say it creates. But if it does, then why aren't we seeing a similiar problem everywhere the church exists? Why are we only seeing that problem in Utah? in Utah county? What is unique about Utah/Utah county that doesn't exist anywhere else in the church????
I think what's unique about Utah is the high concentration of LDS. It is really the only place in the world (as far as I know) where LDS are the majority.
Of course other cultures have the same problems, that is not the point.
On the contrary, that is the point! You can't blame the church, if other cultures have the same problems!
Well... If the cultures and the LDS Church share certain attributes, then perhaps it's fair to note what those attributes are, and to examine the way those attributes may or may not be embedded in LDS culture and teachings.
This is a Mormon discussion board, and if we can open some eyes and hearts by having a conversation about it, that's all we can ask for. Denying there is a problem doesn't help, nor does getting defensive about the church. It's real here, that's all we know for sure. And we can save lives by getting the word out as to what can be changed in the homes.
I am the last person to defend the church, but I also don't think it's fair to heap unwarranted accusations onto already beleagured LDS parents. It's hard enough to raise a family without having one of the children get caught in the drug buzzsaw. Blaming the church won't help, unless you can clearly connect the church or the culture to the problem.
My .02 is this: if you agree that low self-esteem, feeling overwhelmed, feeling guilty, feeling inadequate, feeling helpless, and those sorts of emotions contribute to drug abuse and depression, then I don't think it's too big of a leap to see how the Church and its various teachings (Elder Featherstone's appalling talk, "A Self-Inflicted Purging" comes to mind) relate in the admittedly complex chain of drug-use causality. I don't think it is the parents who are to blame so much as these toxic and absurdly guilt-inducing LDS teachings.
Of course personal responsibility is important, but until a person feels loved and worthy, they are not going to begin to understand that concept. Treatment begins with feeling heard. Once that is accomplished, the teaching can begin.
Treatment begins with acknowledging that there is a problem. Repentence works the same way.
The trouble is that (in my opinion) acknowledging problems and guilt is extremely difficult in LDS culture. Look at the way that apologists consistently dodge out of the way when they've been caught behaving badly. Or, consider the fact that the Church, as an institution, has never apologized for anything.
While it's true that there don't seem to be any overwhelming, absolutely concrete facts/numbers tying the Church to drug use & etc., in my opinion, the circumstantial and contextual evidence is quite convincing.