? about Joseph Smith' contemporaries

[_beastie]

After reading some of Wilhelm Ritter von Wymetal's unflattering portrait of Joseph Smith, found here:

http://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/ ... .htm#front

I have a question for those of you who may have studied this issue more extensively than I have. (I've read several books on the subject but haven't read a lot of old documents)

How did Joseph Smith' nonbelieving contemporaries normally view him? Obviously believers viewed him as a true prophet, but did the vast majority of nonbelievers think he was a deliberate conman, or did they tend more to pious fraud?

[_karl61]

I liked 'three days in Nauvoo'. It gets interesting around page 27.

http://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/ ... 42Cas1.htm

[_beastie]

Heh. I had read excerpts from that before, I remember the part about the Greek Psalter. I'm beginning to think that if the vast majority of contemporary nonbelievers viewed Joseph Smith as an outright fraud, and not a pious fraud, then they probably were right. Contemporaries usually have more insight than later generations.

[_moksha]

" His age is about 1 thirty-seven. He led the way to his house, accompanied by many elders, preachers, and other Mormon dignitaries. On entering the house, chairs were provided for the prophet and myself, while the curious and gaping spectators remained standing. 2 I handed the book to the prophet, and begged him to explain its contents. He asked me if I had any idea of its meaning. I replied, that I believed it to be a Greek Psalter; but that I should like to hear his opinion. "No he said; "it ain't Greek at all, except, perhaps, a few words. What ain't Greek, is Egyptian; and what ain't Egyptian, is Greek. This book is very valuable. It is a dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics." Pointing to the capital letters at the commencement of each verse, he said: Them figures is Egyptian hieroglyphics; and them which follows, is the interpretation of the hieroglyphics, written in the reformed Egyptian. Them characters is like the letters that was engraved on the golden plates." Upon this, the Mormons around began to congratulate me on the information I was receiving. "There," they said; "we told you so -- we told you that our prophet would give you satisfaction. None but our prophet can explain these mysteries." The prophet now turned to me, and said, "This book ain't of no use to you, you don't understand it." "Oh yes," I replied; "it is of some use; for if I were in want of money, I could sell it for something handsome."

"But what will you sell it for?" said the prophet and his dignitaries. "

He should have let Joseph Smith translate his book.

[_BishopRic]

" His age is about 1 thirty-seven. He led the way to his house, accompanied by many elders, preachers, and other Mormon dignitaries. On entering the house, chairs were provided for the prophet and myself, while the curious and gaping spectators remained standing. 2 I handed the book to the prophet, and begged him to explain its contents. He asked me if I had any idea of its meaning. I replied, that I believed it to be a Greek Psalter; but that I should like to hear his opinion. "No he said; "it ain't Greek at all, except, perhaps, a few words. What ain't Greek, is Egyptian; and what ain't Egyptian, is Greek. This book is very valuable. It is a dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics." Pointing to the capital letters at the commencement of each verse, he said: Them figures is Egyptian hieroglyphics; and them which follows, is the interpretation of the hieroglyphics, written in the reformed Egyptian. Them characters is like the letters that was engraved on the golden plates." Upon this, the Mormons around began to congratulate me on the information I was receiving. "There," they said; "we told you so -- we told you that our prophet would give you satisfaction. None but our prophet can explain these mysteries." The prophet now turned to me, and said, "This book ain't of no use to you, you don't understand it." "Oh yes," I replied; "it is of some use; for if I were in want of money, I could sell it for something handsome."

"But what will you sell it for?" said the prophet and his dignitaries. "

He should have let Joseph Smith translate his book.

If I recall correctly, he started to. He then wanted to buy it, but when Henry wanted more $$$, Joseph left in a hurry to his next "project." I could have some details wrong, but I remember that Joseph claimed it was an important book. It all sounded so much like the Kinderhook Plates event.

Wonder why.

[_Dr. Shades]

How did Joseph Smith' nonbelieving contemporaries normally view him? Obviously believers viewed him as a true prophet, but did the vast majority of nonbelievers think he was a deliberate conman, or did they tend more to pious fraud?

If the Pennsylvania and New York witnesses are any indication, then nearly all of them thought he was a deliberate conman. Nothing even remotely similar to a "pious fraud" is even so much as hinted at by anyone who knew him.

[_The Dude]

Contemporaries usually have more insight than later generations.

Is that really true? I'm not so sure it is.

"No man knows my history..."

How would Joseph's contemporary enemies have had more insight into his true motivations than we have? It could be argued that they had more bias and less data than we have today.

[_beastie]

Is that really true? I'm not so sure it is.

"No man knows my history..."

How would Joseph's contemporary enemies have had more insight into his true motivations than we have? It could be argued that they had more bias and less data than we have today.

In referring to his contemporaries, I meant, in particular, those who either knew Joseph Smith and his family or had access to people who did.

I think they were more familiar with his behavior and past actions, and with environmental influences. It does seem logical that extra information would lead to more insight.

[_The Dude]

If you meant "people with first hand knowledge usually have more insight than those who are more removed" then I agree.

Totally agree.

Sorry for the confusion.

[_beastie]

dude, the confusion was totally my fault for not being more specific. But yes, I had in mind people who possessed some sort of first hand, or possibly once removed, knowledge.