Where is the Joy in Mormonism?

[_Bond...James Bond]

Praise God from whom all blessings flow, praise Him all creatures here below, praise Him above ye heavenly host, praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

They sung that one at a Baptist church I attended.~~~There was a 12 second Amen at the end as well.

[_BishopRic]

I have attended services at a broad variety of churches (christian and non-christian) and have experienced a wealth of joy at each--including, and particularly, at my own LDS congregation.

I wonder why that may happen for me, and not for others?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Welcome back Wade!

As I stated above, I think happiness is based on one's expectations of what it looks like. Having lived both in the LDS culture, and experienced that "joy," and now out, and experienced that "joy," I believe they are both valid and real -- but quite different.

For example, I find "Mormon happy" to (generally) be based on very specific expectations, for oneself and others. When those expectations are met, there is much rejoicing and tearful happiness. When not, there is a corresponding sadness. There is the oft heard statement "I don't know what I'd do without the gospel, and its guidelines for living." I believe that reflects a true belief. After evolving to my new (sorry for my overused term here) paradigm, I actually find great joy and happiness in not knowing, and not committing...an attitude I never could have grasped as a Mormon.

But that's me, and I don't begin to claim it's "the only true way..."

[_John Larsen]

I don't think the problem with Mormon services is the mode of service per se. For some people, it is just what they like. Some will enjoy the trappings of an LDS service and I don't see anything wrong with that. One way is not necessary superior to another. The problem is that, in Mormonism, there is no room for people who would better respond to another mode of worship. Mormonism insists that there is one, and only one way of doing things.

Some people respond to a pipe organ, others might better respond to a bass and drums. Neither is right or wrong. I remember one of the first Unitarian services that I attended a man played some beautiful music on a trumpet. It was appropriate and sacred. This would simply never be allowed in LDS services because the Church has rules against such things.

Mormonism doesn't make people unhappy. It makes some people unhappy. That will be true as long as it insists on a single way and following the unwritten order of things.

[_wenglund]

I have attended services at a broad variety of churches (christian and non-christian) and have experienced a wealth of joy at each--including, and particularly, at my own LDS congregation.

I wonder why that may happen for me, and not for others?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Welcome back Wade!

As I stated above, I think happiness is based on one's expectations of what it looks like. Having lived both in the LDS culture, and experienced that "joy," and now out, and experienced that "joy," I believe they are both valid and real -- but quite different.

For example, I find "Mormon happy" to (generally) be based on very specific expectations, for oneself and others. When those expectations are met, there is much rejoicing and tearful happiness. When not, there is a corresponding sadness. There is the oft heard statement "I don't know what I'd do without the gospel, and its guidelines for living." I believe that reflects a true belief. After evolving to my new (sorry for my overused term here) paradigm, I actually find great joy and happiness in not knowing, and not committing...an attitude I never could have grasped as a Mormon.

But that's me, and I don't begin to claim it's "the only true way..."

Hi Rick,

It is good to hear from you as well.

I agree that expectations can have a significant influence on the level and type (or cause) of joy or joylessness that people may feel wherever they may be or go. In my experience this is particularly true depending upon whether the expectations are internally or externally oriented, and/or whether the expectation is to receive or to give joy.

In fact, one of the main reasons I believe I have felt joy, and not been disappointed with joylessness, wherever I have met in religious devotion, is because I place my expectation for joy on myself--i.e I expect myself to chose to be a joyous person and to try to give joy to others irrespective of their faith tradition, and I have been greatly blessed thereby to receive an outpouring of joy in return. ;-)

In short, when I am lacking in joy in whatever local, I find it benefitial to look within for both the cause and solution, rather than stiffling the chances for joy through placing external blame--not that you would.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

I don't think the problem with Mormon services is the mode of service per se. For some people, it is just what they like. Some will enjoy the trappings of an LDS service and I don't see anything wrong with that. One way is not necessary superior to another. The problem is that, in Mormonism, there is no room for people who would better respond to another mode of worship. Mormonism insists that there is one, and only one way of doing things.

Some people respond to a pipe organ, others might better respond to a bass and drums. Neither is right or wrong. I remember one of the first Unitarian services that I attended a man played some beautiful music on a trumpet. It was appropriate and sacred. This would simply never be allowed in LDS services because the Church has rules against such things.

Mormonism doesn't make people unhappy. It makes some people unhappy. That will be true as long as it insists on a single way and following the unwritten order of things.

To me, what you say is certainly true for those who condition their joy on external things (like the mode of worship) rather than on internal things (like themselves and what they bring to whatever mode of service).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_John Larsen]

I don't think the problem with Mormon services is the mode of service per se. For some people, it is just what they like. Some will enjoy the trappings of an LDS service and I don't see anything wrong with that. One way is not necessary superior to another. The problem is that, in Mormonism, there is no room for people who would better respond to another mode of worship. Mormonism insists that there is one, and only one way of doing things.

Some people respond to a pipe organ, others might better respond to a bass and drums. Neither is right or wrong. I remember one of the first Unitarian services that I attended a man played some beautiful music on a trumpet. It was appropriate and sacred. This would simply never be allowed in LDS services because the Church has rules against such things.

Mormonism doesn't make people unhappy. It makes some people unhappy. That will be true as long as it insists on a single way and following the unwritten order of things.

To me, what you say is certainly true for those who condition their joy on external things (like the mode of worship) rather than on internal things (like themselves and what they bring to whatever mode of service).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I think you are exaggeration your stoicism to suggest that internal joy comes to you regardless of your surroundings. So I would counter that "those who condition their joy on external thing" includes everybody except for a few monks in Nepal.

[_The Nehor]

I don't think the problem with Mormon services is the mode of service per se. For some people, it is just what they like. Some will enjoy the trappings of an LDS service and I don't see anything wrong with that. One way is not necessary superior to another. The problem is that, in Mormonism, there is no room for people who would better respond to another mode of worship. Mormonism insists that there is one, and only one way of doing things.

Some people respond to a pipe organ, others might better respond to a bass and drums. Neither is right or wrong. I remember one of the first Unitarian services that I attended a man played some beautiful music on a trumpet. It was appropriate and sacred. This would simply never be allowed in LDS services because the Church has rules against such things.

Mormonism doesn't make people unhappy. It makes some people unhappy. That will be true as long as it insists on a single way and following the unwritten order of things.

Well, those who it makes unhappy probably would hate Celestial Glory too. So if they'd quit coming, at least they'd stop spoiling the fun everyone else is having.

[_ajax18]

People are there because they want to be there, and for no other reason. They don’t believe it’s required to attend church to be “saved”. They just like going.

It's interesting to me the different things that turn people off to religion. I've heard this criticism from a lot ex-Mormons, so much that it almost seems to me that Mormonism has shifted its doctrine to state that the "only out of Love of God," is the highest and purest form of motivation.

For me the love of God motivation does not seem to add up. The only consequences I truly have to live with eternally are for myself. Is that selfish? Absolutely. I believe that each individual owes it to himself to develop Christlike attributes and act unselfishly. The reason I advocate this is because this is ultimately in the individuals self interest. If it were not, I would not advocate unselfish behavior in those that want to be happy. My point being, ultimately you have to do these things for yourself, or you're just not going to have the motivation to see it through. Ultimately, the only one you're really responsible for and will bear the consequence of is your own actions, not God's, not your family's, and not your neighbors.

It's Mormonism's resistance to my line of thinking that turns me off to it, because it acts as further evidence that they do not have my best interest at heart, and truly are, just bullying and using me.

I can't say I would ever like going to Church just because I like it, anymore than it would be natural for me to act unselfishly all the time. If you're really honest about it, most people cat out of self interest 98% of the time. Even self proclaimed unselfish people must understand that their first obligation truly is to themselves. Otherwise they wouldn't act the way they do. When religion fails to demonstrate to people why moral behavior is ultimately in ones self interest is when it truly becomes distasteful and impotent.

[_John Larsen]

I don't think the problem with Mormon services is the mode of service per se. For some people, it is just what they like. Some will enjoy the trappings of an LDS service and I don't see anything wrong with that. One way is not necessary superior to another. The problem is that, in Mormonism, there is no room for people who would better respond to another mode of worship. Mormonism insists that there is one, and only one way of doing things.

Some people respond to a pipe organ, others might better respond to a bass and drums. Neither is right or wrong. I remember one of the first Unitarian services that I attended a man played some beautiful music on a trumpet. It was appropriate and sacred. This would simply never be allowed in LDS services because the Church has rules against such things.

Mormonism doesn't make people unhappy. It makes some people unhappy. That will be true as long as it insists on a single way and following the unwritten order of things.

Well, those who it makes unhappy probably would hate Celestial Glory too. So if they'd quit coming, at least they'd stop spoiling the fun everyone else is having.

I'm trying to do my part. Did you notice a certain spring in your step in late 2004?

[_The Nehor]

I don't think the problem with Mormon services is the mode of service per se. For some people, it is just what they like. Some will enjoy the trappings of an LDS service and I don't see anything wrong with that. One way is not necessary superior to another. The problem is that, in Mormonism, there is no room for people who would better respond to another mode of worship. Mormonism insists that there is one, and only one way of doing things.

Some people respond to a pipe organ, others might better respond to a bass and drums. Neither is right or wrong. I remember one of the first Unitarian services that I attended a man played some beautiful music on a trumpet. It was appropriate and sacred. This would simply never be allowed in LDS services because the Church has rules against such things.

Mormonism doesn't make people unhappy. It makes some people unhappy. That will be true as long as it insists on a single way and following the unwritten order of things.

Well, those who it makes unhappy probably would hate Celestial Glory too. So if they'd quit coming, at least they'd stop spoiling the fun everyone else is having.

I'm trying to do my part. Did you notice a certain spring in your step in late 2004?

Yes, but that's also when I was dating the hottest, brightest, and most fun girl I've ever met....so I'm not sure about causality.