Freedom?????s just another word for ?????nothing left to lose?????

[_Roger Morrison]

"Freedom just another word..." One of my most favourite Kristophersen (sp?) songs. Janice was OK too, but singing it as a family, or solo, while on-the-road seemed to be our/my altimate anthem... Thanks for the memory-nudge Will...

Not sure why you're doubted? April fool jokes?? Really, on MDB :-) Sure has aroused some interesting comments. I think best-of-all is from Wade pasted below. Into which i inject in bold:

The reason for me asking is because, contrary to the conclusions you jumped to about me below, my considerable experience with former members (including those who were strong in the faith) has taught me that emotional responses when leaving run the gamit from very significant to very mild, and it does ex-Mormons a disservice to stereotype them in the way that you did. In short, it may falsely raise questions about "genuinness" with those who have genuinely left the Church, though without the same level of emotional drama you may have experienced.

RM: Cannot be argued! We who have "left" all do so in our own way, for our own reasons. For me it was a slow process. With little anger. I/we joined freely and walked away freely. AND enjoyed & benefitted from our time, wiser and more experienced than when we entered. Doesn't make THE church "true' however, in my most seriouly considered opinion.


Quote:
It is typical for members to underestimate the emotional hardship encountered in leaving the Church, so unlike Will's, I think your remarks are par for course. However, I don't expect you to understand something you have not encountered yourself. So I hold no ill will towards you.


I believe you have grossly misjudged m,e. All I did was ask you a clarifying question in hopes of testing your stereotypical perception of former members, and from that you mistakenly claimed that I have made remarks that "are par for the course", and wrongly suggested that I underestimate the emotional hardships of those leaving the Church, and falsely presumed that I wouldn't understand and hadn't encounter ex-Mormonism myself. Whoo!! So many errors from so little. ;-)
RM: Unfortunately, I think misjudging Wade seems to be a favourite pass time for some MDB posters, IMSCO. But that's how we get to know each other. All different... Nice to see you back Bro.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

As for Will's sincerity, I take him as i read him. That his epiphany comes at this time presents a possible once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for him, and all others who are critical of LDSism, and who are still on the roles, to attend GC on April 5th and vote NOT to sustain the First Presidency. Sort of like walkin' the talk...
An opportunity to facilitate an eclipse... Why not? Warm regards, Roger

[_The Nehor]

There is one part of Will's prank that I find very believable - that he's not that active in the church. After seeing several surprising confessions, over the years, by defenders of the faith regarding their minimal or nonexistent level of "real life" church activity, I have come to believe that a significant percentage of online defenders of the faith are either inactive or nominally active, or they have struggled with issues that would prevent them from obtaining temple recommends. Maybe something serious, like an affair, or WoW infractions, or something questionable like addiction to internet porn and/or masturbation. I wonder if they think by posting in defense of the church they're earning heavenly brownie points that compensate for their other problems. Or do they mentally count this as a form of "missionary work" so they can put a little check in that To Do column?

I'm still trying to figure out why I'm here.

[_Coggins7]

There is one part of Will's prank that I find very believable - that he's not that active in the church. After seeing several surprising confessions, over the years, by defenders of the faith regarding their minimal or nonexistent level of "real life" church activity, I have come to believe that a significant percentage of online defenders of the faith are either inactive or nominally active, or they have struggled with issues that would prevent them from obtaining temple recommends. Maybe something serious, like an affair, or WoW infractions, or something questionable like addiction to internet porn and/or masturbation. I wonder if they think by posting in defense of the church they're earning heavenly brownie points that compensate for their other problems. Or do they mentally count this as a form of "missionary work" so they can put a little check in that To Do column?

Soon, very soon, you will have sunken to the level of Scratch himself, your mentor, role model, and personological archetype.

If this was a prank, then just take my comments above and save them for the next confession or exit story that appears here, as it will probably, in typical potboiler fashion, be applicable to my analysis. If this is a prank, then William has been a wry and diligent observer of the exmo world for some time, as his approach was a textbook example of most of the standard cliches and motifs of this mentality.

Excelsior!

[_wenglund]

There is one part of Will's prank that I find very believable - that he's not that active in the church. After seeing several surprising confessions, over the years, by defenders of the faith regarding their minimal or nonexistent level of "real life" church activity, I have come to believe that a significant percentage of online defenders of the faith are either inactive or nominally active, or they have struggled with issues that would prevent them from obtaining temple recommends. Maybe something serious, like an affair, or WoW infractions, or something questionable like addiction to internet porn and/or masturbation. I wonder if they think by posting in defense of the church they're earning heavenly brownie points that compensate for their other problems. Or do they mentally count this as a form of "missionary work" so they can put a little check in that To Do column?

Propagandizing 101:
The tactic of smearing one's opponent by fabricating layers of baseless conjectures each in turn presented as though they are all presumed true.

Step 1. Make a wild and unflattering conjecture about one's opponent that one can't possible know the truth thereof--in this case, wildly conjecture as to the church and temple attendance records of a "significant percentage" of online apologists.

Step 2. Presume the wild conjecture to be true by then irresponsibly conjecuring various causal factors for the presumed wild conjecture--in this case, irresponsibly conjecture that the presumed poor church and temple attendance of a "significant percentage" of online apologists may be due to their conjectured struggles with conjectured worthyness issues.

Step 3. Presume that the wild and irresponsible conjectures are true by vacuously conjecturing about the motives behind certain actions of ones opponent that are allegedly connected with the presumed wild and irresponsible conjectures--in this case, vacuously conjecture that the motive for the online participation of a "significant percentage" of online apologists is allegedly to "earn points" in heaven so as to counterbalance the presumed loss of points from the presumed poor church and temple attendence that is presumably caused by worthiness issues.

Step 4: Craft a clever exit strategy just in case someone easily sees through the smear tactic and the whole thing portends to backfire in one's face--in this case, post the smear tactic on April Fools Day so one may claim it was just a joke. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mercury]

There is one part of Will's prank that I find very believable - that he's not that active in the church. After seeing several surprising confessions, over the years, by defenders of the faith regarding their minimal or nonexistent level of "real life" church activity, I have come to believe that a significant percentage of online defenders of the faith are either inactive or nominally active, or they have struggled with issues that would prevent them from obtaining temple recommends. Maybe something serious, like an affair, or WoW infractions, or something questionable like addiction to internet porn and/or masturbation. I wonder if they think by posting in defense of the church they're earning heavenly brownie points that compensate for their other problems. Or do they mentally count this as a form of "missionary work" so they can put a little check in that To Do column?

I'm still trying to figure out why I'm here.

You desire to involve yourself somewhat vicariously with rejection of a religion you still can't let go of even though you know its based on lies and emotional manipulation. Simple enough.

[_CaliforniaKid]

If this was a prank, then just take my comments above and save them for the next confession or exit story that appears here, as it will probably, in typical potboiler fashion, be applicable to my analysis. If this is a prank, then William has been a wry and diligent observer of the exmo world for some time, as his approach was a textbook example of most of the standard clichés and motifs of this mentality.

I don't understand how anybody can think Will was serious in the OP. His post was so full of tired and overblown stereotypes that I think it would best be described as an attack on people who really have left the Church. So yes, William has been an apt observer of Mormon rhetoric against exmos and included a number of "standard clichés and motifs" of said rhetoric. But no, I don't think he really understands the "exmo world".

[_The Nehor]

There is one part of Will's prank that I find very believable - that he's not that active in the church. After seeing several surprising confessions, over the years, by defenders of the faith regarding their minimal or nonexistent level of "real life" church activity, I have come to believe that a significant percentage of online defenders of the faith are either inactive or nominally active, or they have struggled with issues that would prevent them from obtaining temple recommends. Maybe something serious, like an affair, or WoW infractions, or something questionable like addiction to internet porn and/or masturbation. I wonder if they think by posting in defense of the church they're earning heavenly brownie points that compensate for their other problems. Or do they mentally count this as a form of "missionary work" so they can put a little check in that To Do column?

I'm still trying to figure out why I'm here.

You desire to involve yourself somewhat vicariously with rejection of a religion you still can't let go of even though you know its based on lies and emotional manipulation. Simple enough.

Taken to apply to all here, does this mean that you desire to involve yourself somewhat with a religion you pretend to have let go of because of lingering fears and/or doubts about your decision to leave?

[_Mercury]

There is one part of Will's prank that I find very believable - that he's not that active in the church. After seeing several surprising confessions, over the years, by defenders of the faith regarding their minimal or nonexistent level of "real life" church activity, I have come to believe that a significant percentage of online defenders of the faith are either inactive or nominally active, or they have struggled with issues that would prevent them from obtaining temple recommends. Maybe something serious, like an affair, or WoW infractions, or something questionable like addiction to internet porn and/or masturbation. I wonder if they think by posting in defense of the church they're earning heavenly brownie points that compensate for their other problems. Or do they mentally count this as a form of "missionary work" so they can put a little check in that To Do column?

I'm still trying to figure out why I'm here.

You desire to involve yourself somewhat vicariously with rejection of a religion you still can't let go of even though you know its based on lies and emotional manipulation. Simple enough.

Taken to apply to all here, does this mean that you desire to involve yourself somewhat with a religion you pretend to have let go of because of lingering fears and/or doubts about your decision to leave?

I know what you are implying but it does not work the other way. Once you pass the threshold, dropping Mormonism, ones involvement with Mormonism on boards such as this is an effort to understand ones past in a more correct narrative. Your involvement is to appease the lingering doubt that threatens your ego.

[_The Dude]

There is one part of Will's prank that I find very believable - that he's not that active in the church. After seeing several surprising confessions, over the years, by defenders of the faith regarding their minimal or nonexistent level of "real life" church activity, I have come to believe that a significant percentage of online defenders of the faith are either inactive or nominally active, or they have struggled with issues that would prevent them from obtaining temple recommends. Maybe something serious, like an affair, or WoW infractions, or something questionable like addiction to internet porn and/or masturbation. I wonder if they think by posting in defense of the church they're earning heavenly brownie points that compensate for their other problems. Or do they mentally count this as a form of "missionary work" so they can put a little check in that To Do column?

Beastie, are you saying Will and other online apologists will apostatize because they are guilty of some secret sin? Are you saying guilt is a basic motivation for them?

April fools.... right?

....right?

[_quaker]

It's like an internet messageboard Andy Kaufman experience. I love it. Thanks Will.