Becoming a Skeptic -- Were You Always?

[_Moniker]

Warning this is a tmfi OP. :)

Truthdancer started a thread on beliefs hardwired into the brain. Did you at one time hold a strong belief in the LDS Church and gradually lose it? Were you always skeptical? Was it a sudden shift?

I think I am most definitely one of those people that was always skeptical. My eyes glaze over and my brain goes into fuzz mode when I am about any sorts of organized religion. I grew up about all sorts and NEVER absorbed ANYTHING. I literally RECOIL from those that speak about religion. I recall going to a religious service in my early 20's and some kids got up to sing "Jesus Loves Me" and I felt shivers go up and down my spine and I felt as though I wanted to retch. I looked about and felt out of place and acutely UNCOMFORTABLE. Even as a kid when I went to different Churches I was more interested in watching the people -- and recognized I am NOT one of them. I felt out of place, on the outside looking in on some wonderful, happy party of believers.

I have attempted to make myself believe things in the realm of religious beliefs and the big one -- God. Can't do it. Sometimes I've felt as there is a God and then quickly drop back to earth and know it's in my mind. For years I thought something was WRONG with me -- how could all these intelligent, wonderful people believe in these things and I could NOT? I tried! I did the things I was told to, and my mind shucked off all attempts.

I have NEVER even been attracted to theists. I have never had relations with any man that had a belief in God. I am turned on by men that are atheists! (this is the tmfi part) This has been from teenage years on up. I quite literally can not envision myself being with a man that had beliefs in anything of a religious matter. I mention this because I think sexual attraction is not a choice -- and in this aspect this is just part of who I am.

I have hung about with Wiccans and always just stared in disbelief that people REALLY believed these things. Now, I never studied religion, never studied the supernatural -- nothing until recently! I just had an involuntary fascination/recoil to all things that seemed supernatural -- ALWAYS! I can watch and observe and find things that are lovely -- in the rituals I sometimes find those quite interesting -- yet, the beliefs I recoil from.

I don't mean any disrespect to those with beliefs in what I do not hold. Yet, my mind literally has involuntary reactions to being about certain BELIEFS!

So, were you born with skepticism, do you think? Or when did it occur?

I think Hammer is right -- I am of Satan!

[_truth dancer]

Hey Moniker,

I've pondered this a lot! :-)

Prior to my disbelief I often thought to myself that there must be something wrong with my brain that disallows me to believe certain things... at least that was the "excuse" I told myself for not being able to believe the ban was of God, or polygamy was divinely directed, or any number of teachings that did not feel right.

I grew up in a home with an agnostic father and my mother joined the church a few years after I, and I had NO idea of some of the teachings/doctrine until several years after I joined the church. In my home racism was COMPLETELY wrong and a marriage was honored, respected, and cherished... polygamy or adultery was completely horrific, and unthinkable. Women were considered equal and there was just no such thing as a man controlling, presiding, ruling, reigning, being in charge or any of that sort of thing. My parents were truly a team and honored and respected each other as partners.

I often wondered if the teachings of my childhood created such a strong sense of what was right and wrong that they are unchangeable.

Like you, I thought there was something wrong with me because I just could not believe some things that I was told were truth. I ALWAYS struggled with the evolution issue which of course now is not even an issue (sigh), the idea that God is a man/being just never fit into my brain, the version of heaven in LDS doctrine really felt ugly and cruel, the elitism and chosenness was unsettling, and many other teachings just didn't work.

OTOH, I believed that the prophets spoke to Christ and that Christ was at the helm, and so I was the one who was not good enough, not open enough, not worthy enough, not obedient enough, etc. etc. etc. Just to be clear, I was as obedient as I knew how, did EVERYTHING I possibly could, fasted, prayed, attended the temple, took every calling, was as humble as I knew how, etc. etc., yet I could NOT get some of the teachings to fit into my heart and soul.

In addition, I had several very powerful spiritual experiences that made clear to me that some teachings were NOT of God, (a couple in the temple after extended fasts), so there was a lot of confusion in my soul.

Anyway, for whatever reason, I do think there are some beliefs that are very difficult to change and as much as I believed the church was truly the one and only true one, so much didn't feel holy and pure.

I am one who loves the religions, myths, music, poetry, rituals, costumes, and dance found throughout the world. For me, however it is not about ultimate truth but about our human journey. These are reflections of our humanness, our quests, our struggles, sorrows, and hope.

Anyway... my disbelief came as I realized I needed to live authentically and follow what was true in my heart. The more I lived in accord with my "truth" (right or wrong), the more peace I felt. (See my tag line... smile).

At this point, I am open to the LDS church or any other of the hundreds of religions being the one and only true one. I highly doubt the universe/God works this way but who knows? What I do know is that my personal experience on this earth is best lived following the truth in my heart.

~dancer~

[_Moniker]

Thanks for the reply, TD. :)

My father is agnostic, as well. My mother is religious, yet, doesn't talk about it much.

I am one who loves the religions, myths, music, poetry, rituals, costumes, and dance found throughout the world. For me, however it is not about ultimate truth but about our human journey. These are reflections of our humanness, our quests, our struggles, sorrows, and hope.

Oh! I am quite fascinated by a lot of different religions and cultural norms found in our world. I find many quite beautiful and am entranced with their rituals. I've participated in many over my years. I have been to Catholic confirmation classes with a friend, taken Communion at a Catholic Church (found out later I wasn't supposed to do that:), gone to the LDS Church with a friend as a teen( and a few times over the last year) been to pretty much all the protestant Churches, grew up in my younger years with a Shinto shrine next to my home and participated in the drunken festivities about bonfires on the beach, and the rituals.... I was just ALWAYS an observer. I can hear about the beliefs -- I can recognize them... yet, when I'm confronted with some beliefs by those that hold them I am acutely uncomfortable... and I'm not certain where this stems from since I've ALWAYS been about religion.

Anyway... my disbelief came as I realized I needed to live authentically and follow what was true in my heart. The more I lived in accord with my "truth" (right or wrong), the more peace I felt. (See my tag line... smile).

I love your tagline! Over the last year I searched again for a belief in God -- when I finally decided it was enough and I would no longer attempt to force myself to believe something which I can NOT do I have felt at peace. Very tranquil -- I agree, that we all must find our own path. :)

At this point, I am open to the LDS church or any other of the hundreds of religions being the one and only true one. I highly doubt the universe/God works this way but who knows? What I do know is that my personal experience on this earth is best lived following the truth in my heart.

I agree! I don't know. If there is a God he can sort it out. :)

[_truth dancer]

I agree! I don't know. If there is a God he can sort it out. :)

Or "She". ;-)

Or "It".

Or whatever... I totally agree!

(smile)

~dancer~

[_CaliforniaKid]

I remember lying on my bed when I was about 6 or 7 and being suddenly struck by the thought that I someday might stop believing in God and being utterly horrified, and begging God never to let that happen.

I've always had a very analytical and self-critical mind. That doesn't necessarily translate into skepticism, but I think that over time it increasingly has.

[_bcspace]

Warning this is a tmfi OP. :)

tmfi?

Technology Managers Forum International?
Too Much Freaking Information?
Tiered micro-financing investment?
Taboo male feminine institution?

????

[_Moniker]

TD, Ha! "She", for sure! ;)

I remember lying on my bed when I was about 6 or 7 and being suddenly struck by the thought that I someday might stop believing in God and being utterly horrified, and begging God never to let that happen.

I've always had a very analytical and self-critical mind. That doesn't necessarily translate into skepticism, but I think that over time it increasingly has.

Oh, well, that's interesting about when you were a child. I recall when I lost my belief in God -- I was a young child and then it was just *gone*. I felt God, yet recognized that God was not evident in the world -- in my world. Later as a teen I thought more on it, and decided I was a deist... have gone through a few different spells of what I think of God. It's horrible to feel God with the belief that it's all in your mind, for me.

I don't think I have a very analytical or self-critical mind... :) For some reason I just have a great deal of difficulty accepting things that others tell me to accept . I don't know where this stemmed from. It's almost instinctual for me to question -- even myself. I can latch on to something then question whatever that is that I've latched onto. How frustrating!

[_Sethbag]

There was a period of time when I was maybe 12 years old or so where I thought I believed in Creation and that evolution was evil and untrue, and the earth was just a few thousand years old, and whatnot. This was based on experiences of hearing these things said by authority figures whom I trusted. But I was always scientifically minded, and that period didn't last more than the blink of an eye. By 6th or 7th grade I can recall doing very well indeed in my science classes, and before my freshman year of HS I was already fully onboard and believed the science that I was taught.

The more I learned, the more I became skeptical of certain things past LDS leaders had taught. I'm talking very specifically about things like the age of the Earth, Adam and Eve/no death in the world, Noah's Ark, and so forth. I was increasingly confident as time went on that they were in fact wrong about these things. The compartmentalization of my mind, however, had been in progress for some time, and so my skepticism with regards to LDS prophetic statements about the Earth's natural history was viewed in one certain light, while my testimony of the Church's truthfulness in general was unquestioned.

I totally, and utterly, took it for granted that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, that Jesus and God existed in the Celestial Kingdom, that it was my destiny to become a God with them in the Celestial Kingdom with my eternal companion[s], etc. I believed the Book of Mormon to be true, pondered in awe at the meanings of the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham, grinned in knowing "inside knowledge" excitement that one of the figures in the facsimiles seemed to be performing one of the signs of the priesthood that I'd learned in the temple - further confirming that it was all true, etc.

As to the skepticism about LDS prophetic statements about Earth's natural history and things like Adam and Eve, and Noah, I just rationalized it away as not important to my eternal salvation. I could willingly excise those things from the belief system and still recognize the remainder as the Truth from God.

So the question of whether I was always a skeptic or not has two answers, really. Yes, I was a skeptic about LDS prophets' teachings that involved areas where science could have a say, and yet I was not a skeptic about the overall truth of the LDS church. I was a confirmed believer right up until three years ago or so. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, that my skepticism about things the Prophets had said that conflicted with science that I believed, was in great part what "lubed up" my mind and made it possible, the more obviously wrong I found the church to be about these things, to eventually consider that maybe they were wrong about everything else too.

Without the skepticism about the things like no death in the world till the Fall, and Noah's Ark, and other such things, I would almost surely never have come to the point where I could even allow myself to consider that the church might actually be wrong about everything. This is why, as someone recently pointed out, I keep bringing up things like Noah's Ark, evolution, Adam's Fall, etc. To me personally these issues were absolutely ginormous in the influence they had on my faith and the ability, ultimately, to consider that I'd been wrong about the rest of the church's teachings too.

And this is why I'm glad that the LDS church still publishes things like that article several years ago confirming Noah's Flood to have been real, and global, and things confirming LDS beliefs about the Fall of Adam. I'm happy that the church hasn't seen fit to stop teaching things that are so obviously disproved by scientific evidence, because these are the kinds of things that might open up the first crack in someone's faith edifice, as they did for me. If the church lets go of the specifics regarding the Fall of Adam, and lets go of the Global Flood, and other similar such science-related things, what then will someone like me, in the future, recognize as not true, that will serve to allow them to see through the ultimate illusion of truth regarding the rest of the church?

[_GoodK]

I have NEVER even been attracted to theists. I have never had relations with any man that had a belief in God. I am turned on by men that are atheists!

**falls out of chair**
You've got to be kidding, Mon! Every girl I ever dated hated two things about me (one was that was an atheist) and I never brought up religion with them...

You need to gather all your like-minded friends and head for the golden state ;)

I think Hammer is right -- I am of Satan!

Can I plug my friend Adam Carolla's movie, The Hammer!
http://www.thehammermovie.com/

Honestly, it is hilarious.

[_wenglund]

I don't know if there is such a thing as congenital skepticism, but I do believe that the process of maturation tends to engender at least some measure of skepticism in most all of us.

The question I find most interesting on the subject is: "are there healthy and unhealthy levels of skepticism, and if so, how does one distinguish between the two, and is it in one's interest to determine the distinctions and act according--i.e. if needed, adjust one's level of skepticism to a healthy level?"

Thanks, -Wade Englund-