Freedom?????s just another word for ?????nothing left to lose?????

[_John Larsen]

I don't understand how anybody can think Will was serious in the OP. His post was so full of tired and overblown stereotypes that I think it would best be described as an attack on people who really have left the Church. So yes, William has been an apt observer of Mormon rhetoric against exmos and included a number of "standard clichés and motifs" of said rhetoric. But no, I don't think he really understands the "exmo world".

Yes, the tired and overblown stereotypes typical of the standard, stock-in-trade exmo exit story. If this is what he's doing, then he has the genra and its components down to a fine point.

What's your point? I'm sure all of us who have been around the block a few times can mimic stereotypes of the players involved. That just shows we have been paying attention. Both sides have their hacks.

[_John Larsen]

Wade tried to take me to task for doubting Will's sincerity. Wade can apologize to me in any manner he see fit. ;)

[_William Schryver]

So yes, William has been an apt observer of Mormon rhetoric against exmos and included a number of "standard clichés and motifs" of said rhetoric. But no, I don't think he really understands the "exmo world".

Can I imagine how I would feel if I came to believe that Jesus Christ does not really live; that he did not really rise from the dead; that he will not really shortly return to the earth; that Joseph Smith was not really a “prophet”, but rather a fraud – pious or otherwise; how I would feel if I came to believe that the Book of Mormon was not really what it claims to be; how I would feel if I came to believe that every spiritual experience, every one of those moments of clarity of thought, every one of those rare and fleeting instants when it seemed pure intelligence flowed into my mind and I knew – that all of what I judged to be “revelation” was really just a natural sensation produced by mere chemical processes within my brain; that it was all just a delusion wrought by human nature or human need; how I would feel if one morning I woke up and the entire basis of my understanding, purpose, and scope of life were suddenly to evaporate into nothingness; how I would feel if I were to strip my entire psyche naked and wrap myself in the chilling thought that all of my existence can be described by the periodic table and the second law of thermodynamics?

Can I imagine how I would feel if I came to believe that it was all really just one big, fat lie? Can I imagine how I would feel if one day I were to read these words of Joseph Smith and no longer believe that he really spoke the truth; that the words were just an ingeniously-crafted lie?

I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me; . . . why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it . . .

Can I imagine how I would feel if I came to believe that these words, supposedly written by a real man named Moroni, are simply the closing lines in an elaborate 19th century literary legerdemain masquerading as “scripture”?

… the time speedily cometh that ye shall know that I lie not, for ye shall see me at the bar of God; and the Lord God will say unto you: Did I not declare my words unto you, which were written by this man, like as one crying from the dead, yea, even as one speaking out of the dust?

Can I imagine how it would feel to lose my conviction of all the extraordinary truth claims of what the world calls Mormonism and to strip myself of both the symbol and the substance of all that is suggested by the garment of the priesthood?
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Can I understand the “exmo world?”

Obviously not.

If I were smart enough to understand, I’d be there. Right?

[_beastie]

Will, you doofus, I never believed you apostatized in the first place. I speculated that, partly due to rumors I had previously heard (perhaps it was on FAIR instead of Z), it was possible that you were being honest about one small part of your story - that you may be minimally active.

But you assure us you are fully active, so my comments don't apply.

If I were smart enough to understand, I’d be there. Right?

I'm not sure the word "smart" is accurate, but there's obviously some difference somewhere. You are content to believe in a world with magic rocks and a god who can't find a way to forgive his children unless blood has been spilled. I think that world is as unlikely as a world where a man in a red suit lives in the North Pole with magic elves and makes toys for good children all over the world.

I'm not sure what word delineates that difference, but a difference it certainly is.

[_beastie]

Beastie:

Quote:
No, I actually don’t believe Will is going to apostatize at all. He already knows too much, and still retains faith, for me to think that knowledge is going to undermine his faith. He’s one I view as a True Believer.


And I have the bomb vest to prove it.

You're not a True Believer because you're willing to strap on a bomb vest. You're a True Believer because you are so emotionally enmeshed within your belief system that you cannot even conceive that it may not be "true".